Walmart and Dick's Raise Minimum Age for Gun Buyers to 21 - page 12

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  1. by   MunoRN
    Quote from chare
    Would you provide a source for the definitions you are using.
    For the legal definition of "machine gun" I'm using your source. For the prefix "semi-" and "full-" I'm using OED or whichever general dictionary you prefer.
  2. by   chare
    Quote from MunoRN
    For the legal definition of "machine gun" I'm using your source. For the prefix "semi-" and "full-" I'm using OED or whichever general dictionary you prefer.
    The problem with that is, the ATF doesn't use the OED, or any other dictionary, in defining whether a weapon is semi- or full-automatic.
  3. by   MunoRN
    Quote from chare
    The problem with that is, the ATF doesn't use the OED, or any other dictionary, in defining whether a weapon is semi- or full-automatic.
    As far as I know, the ATF doesn't specifically define semi-automatic vs full-automatic. They have a definition for "machine gun", which is a different term from either semi- or full-automatic.
  4. by   chare
    Quote from MunoRN
    As far as I know, the ATF doesn't specifically define semi-automatic vs full-automatic. They have a definition for "machine gun", which is a different term from either semi- or full-automatic.
    Yes, this is correct; the ATF doesn't specifically define either semi- or full-automatic. Again, the ATF defines a machine gun as "any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger," without specifying type of weapon (rifle, pistol, shotgun, etc.) or specifying a minimum number of rounds fired per single operation of the trigger. As both the M16-A2 and M16-A4 are capable of firing a three-round burst, both are technically, and legally, defined as machine guns.

    As you seem to understand this, why do you continue to insist that the M16-A2 and M16-A4 are not machine guns, but is a "semi-automatic with a 3 round burst mode?"
  5. by   MunoRN
    Quote from chare
    Yes, this is correct; the ATF doesn't specifically define either semi- or full-automatic. Again, the ATF defines a machine gun as "any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger," without specifying type of weapon (rifle, pistol, shotgun, etc.) or specifying a minimum number of rounds fired per single operation of the trigger. As both the M16-A2 and M16-A4 are capable of firing a three-round burst, both are technically, and legally, defined as machine guns.

    As you seem to understand this, why do you continue to insist that the M16-A2 and M16-A4 are not machine guns, but is a "semi-automatic with a 3 round burst mode?"
    Since I previously referred to them as "semi-automatic machine guns", I'm not sure where you're getting that I insisted they are not 'machine guns'.
  6. by   chare
    Quote from MunoRN
    A "machine gun" is a related but separate definition from semi-automatic vs full-automatic. Legally defined "machine guns" can be either a semi-automatic machine gun (limited round burst) or a full-auto machine gun (no set limit per trigger pull).
    [...]
    This is not accurate. Again, the ATF doesn't stipulate the ability to fire continuously as long as the trigger is depressed as being necessary for a weapon to be classified as a machine gun. All that is required is that the weapon fires more than one round per trigger pull. As for a "semi-automatic machine gun," this is about as accurate as the report on CNN describing "full semi-automatic mode;" neither of them exists.
  7. by   MunoRN
    Quote from chare
    This is not accurate. Again, the ATF doesn't stipulate the ability to fire continuously as long as the trigger is depressed as being necessary for a weapon to be classified as a machine gun. All that is required is that the weapon fires more than one round per trigger pull. As for a "semi-automatic machine gun," this is about as accurate as the report on CNN describing "full semi-automatic mode;" neither of them exists.
    Whether a firearm is a "machine gun" as defined by the ATF and whether it is semi-automatic or full-automatic are two different descriptions.

    Firing more than one round per trigger pull makes a firearm a "machine gun" per the ATF, but this is not an interchangeable term with "full-automatic" since a firearm can fire more than one round per trigger pull and still be either semi-automatic or full-automatic.

    Full-auto means the number of rounds fired continuously is not limited by the firing mechanism, a mechanism that does limit the number of rounds fired per trigger pull means it is less than "full", ie "semi". A burst mode doesn't limit the number of rounds fired to one round, but it does still limits the number of rounds fired per trigger pull, which means it isn't full-auto.

    I'm not really sure what part you disagree with; does a 3 round burst mode not fall under the ATF definition of "machine gun"? Are you contending that a 3 round burst mode is the same as full-auto?
  8. by   cmefford
    Quote from nursej22
    The NRA is afraid of losing sales. Others seem to think they would be able to overthrow the federal government's tanks, rockets and automatic weapons with their AR-15s.
    Losing sales of what? The NRA doesn't sell guns...
  9. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from cmefford
    Losing sales of what? The NRA doesn't sell guns...
    Oh, please! Obviously the NRA doesn't sell guns. But they do benefit from the normalization of guns and increased gun ownership.
  10. by   cmefford
    Quote from Lil Nel
    Oh, please! Obviously the NRA doesn't sell guns. But they do benefit from the normalization of guns and increased gun ownership.
    Only if gun owners buy a membership from them.
  11. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from cmefford
    Only if gun owners buy a membership from them.
    No. The NRA benefits in other ways than simply membership.

    Please be honest.
  12. by   toomuchbaloney
    The NRA is paid by American gun manufacturers to lobby their interests to the government and the people. The NRA doesn't want to see drops in sales because that is counter to their agenda (more guns).

    Only someone very naive or poorly informed doesn't know that membership dues are a small portion of the NRAs revenue stream.

    For instance, in 2016 the NRA received tens of millions of dollars in Russian donations to give to Trump and other Republican politicians.
  13. by   herring_RN
    The NRA spends millions influencing Congress and the White House to advance its agenda. And its monetary prowess is still growing.

    The group spent more money lobbying for expanded gun rights through the first two quarters of 2017 as it did in all of 2016. Last year's lobbying total surpassed $5.1 million, according to the Center for Responsive Politics' database...

    5 charts that show how powerful the National Rifle Association is - Business Insider

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