National Park Service proposing rule changes -- Comment period ends Monday - page 2

I can't believe I didn't hear about this before this evening -- "A Trump administration proposal to limit protests at the White House and the National Mall, including by potentially charging fees... Read More

  1. by   Lil Nel
    Here's what I find interesting folks.

    On another thread, Dude defended the "monkey up" remarks made by White, Florida GOP candidate Ron DeSantis, towards his Black challenger, Andrew Gillium.

    While many of us suggested the comment held racist undertones, Dude essentially countered that it was just a comment. Nothing racist at all!

    Yet he is so sure that my comment was derogatory.

    Now, most of you know how much I adore the barn cats, Kellyanne and Chuckie.

    Perhaps Dude is guilty of what he thought many of us were doing with the DeSantis statement, and over thinking it.

    Time to go to the barn!
  2. by   chare
    Quote from macawake
    If for example Dubuque or Sarasota were to do that it wouldn't have even close to the same impact as if Washington D.C. did it. Please don't pretend like they're equivalent.

    The nexus of your nation's executive, legislative and judicial power is in D.C..
    [...]
    The fact that D. C. is the " nexus of [our] nation's executive, legislative and judicial power" has no bearing on this. I would expect that those holding a rally or protest would clean up after themselves. If not, then they should be billed for all costs associated with the cleanup. Regardless if whether it occurs in Dubuque or Sarasota or Washington D.C.

    Likewise, if the completely clean up after themselves there should be no charges or fees
    Quote from macawake
    [...]
    Instead, perhaps you could explain why creating obstacles, where none previously existed, making it more difficult for citizens to make their voice heard, isn't a step towards silencing dissent?
    [...]
    I presume you are referring to the proposal to limit protests near the Whitehouse and/or on the National Mall? If so, then I agree. Unless, and I'm not sure that this is the situation here, the decision would be based upon legitimate and verifiable security issues. If this were the case, then the secret service should advise Mr. Trump to curtail his trips to many of the unsecure locations he frequents.
    Quote from macawake
    [...]
    Leaders in free societies make efforts to facilitate free speech.

    Oppressive regimes make free speech harder.

    Call it fascism or call it whatever you want. This is a step in the wrong direction.
    [...]
    If you are referring to the proposal to limit protest, then yes, I agree.

    However, it should be noted that there has been an increased call to limit speech by those on both sides of the political spectrum. This I find concerning, regardless of which side, and regardless of whether or I agree with what is being said.
    Your link would 't work as posted, at least for me on my phone.This one worked for me: Right Wing Authoritarianism Scale
    Quote from macawake
    [...]
    My score is 5.68%

    What's yours?
    [...]
    Thank you for the link, this was interesting. Although not directed to me, my score was 12.5%. I have always believed that, as long as it didn't infringe on someone else's rights, an individual's personal life style and choices were no one else concern.

    I'll take this further. I'm not necessarily against "free" education, Medicare for all and/or some of the other proposals coming from the progressive camp. However, I do question how we would pay for all of this.
    Quote from macawake
    [...]
    I think it's clear as day that there are elements in this current administration that are deliberately steering you away from "the land of the free"...
    [...]
    I don't necessarily agree with this. Just as I didn't believe there were it elements in Mr. Obama's administration doing the same, even though I didn't necessarily agree with all that the did, or attempted.
    Quote from macawake
    [...]
    ...the U.S. used to be a beacon of hope. Now, it's a country that detains young children in huge sterile looking tent camps with no guarantees that these children will ever be reunited with their parents.
    [...]
    Exactly many children remain detained? And of these, how many are actually kept in tent cities? From what I have read, most of the children still detained are those that were stopped with other than family members. If this is the situation, what would you suggest we do with these children if family members are not available?

    It is my understanding that the separation of families, other than for brief periods mandated by required processing was stopped. And that if children were removed from their family for processing, they were reunited as quickly as possible.
    Quote from macawake
    [...]
    The world is watching.
    Yes, it is. Mr. Trump could greatly improve the world's opinion of him, his administration, and the U.S. if he would start acting more like the President, and the less like a spoiled child.
    Last edit by chare on Oct 14
  3. by   chare
    Quote from Lil Nel
    [...]
    On another thread, Dude defended the "monkey up" remarks made by White, Florida GOP candidate Ron DeSantis, towards his Black challenger, Andrew Gillium.

    While many of us suggested the comment held racist undertones, Dude essentially countered that it was just a comment. Nothing racist at all!
    [...]
    I Followed that other thread with some interest. During the mid 1970s, in the Marine Corps, we used both "monkey it up" and "monkey[ing] around" as surrogates for more profane expressions when their use would not have been acceptable. We didn't consider it racist then, nor do I consider it racist now. Regardless, I wouldn't use it now in the presence of someone who found it offensive,
    Quote from Lil Nel
    [...]
    Yet he is so sure that my comment was derogatory.
    [...]
    Just as you, and many others, were so sure that Mr. DeSantis' comment was derogatory, and racist.
    Quote from Lil Nel
    [...]
    Perhaps Dude is guilty of what he thought many of us were doing with the DeSantis statement, and over thinking it.
    [...]
    This I agree, and find this something that many, on both sides of the aisle, are often guilty of.
  4. by   macawake
    Quote from chare
    Your link would 't work as posted, at least for me on my phone.This one worked for me: Right Wing Authoritarianism Scale

    Thank you for the link, this was interesting. Although not directed to me, my score was 12.5%. I have always believed that, as long as it didn't infringe on someone else's rights, an individual's personal life style and choices were no one else concern.

    I'll take this further. I'm not necessarily against "free" education, Medicare for all and/or some of the other proposals coming from the progressive camp. However, I do question how we would pay for all of this.
    Thanks for fixing the link

    I knew there was a reason I liked you (I'm not surprised by your low score). I think we agree on more than we disagree on.

    The reason I posted the link is that I believe that many of the posters who continue to condone or at least are willing to overlook the President's behavior, are authoritarians at heart. I simply think a person has to have such tendencies in order to be able to stomach his and the administration's values, opinions and policies.

    Quote from chare
    I presume you are referring to the proposal to limit protests near the Whitehouse and/or on the National Mall? If so, then I agree. Unless, and I'm not sure that this is the situation here, the decision would be based upon legitimate and verifiable security issues. If this were the case, then the secret service should advise Mr. Trump to curtail his trips to many of the unsecure locations he frequents.

    If you are referring to the proposal to limit protest, then yes, I agree.
    Yes, that is what I was referring to. I wasn't being very clear.

    I don't think this new proposal is the Secret Service's brainchild. I'm convinced that they are quite adept at threat assessment and taking the proper precautions on a case-by-case basis. They managed to protect President Obama, and I can only imagine the amount of threats that were made against him, without limiting protests in the vicinity of the White House.

    You now have a President who's complained about all the negative things the press are ALLOWED to say and write about him and he only goes to rallies in locations where he has a lot of support. With that in mind and combined with the fact that there's currently a deliberate effort to try to paint "leftist" protestors as violent and dangerous, I think this is just another way to try to silence dissent. It comes with the added bonus of being able to live in a "comfort bubble" where everyone cheers, and no one criticizes.

    Quote from chare
    I don't necessarily agree with this. Just as I didn't believe there were it elements in Mr. Obama's administration doing the same, even though I didn't necessarily agree with all that the did, or attempted.
    The day I arrived at the definitive conclusion that there are budding autocrats in this administration was when I listened to the inaugural address. It literally gave me goose bumps (not the fun kind).

    It was one of the most dystopian speeches I've ever heard. It was so bleak and isolationist. Describing your country using words like carnage. Those are fear-mongering words to my ears. The angry-sounding repetition of America first.

    Identifying a common enemy ("the others"), claiming that things are really bad in the country and that everyone else is taking advantage of you, and then promising that I and only I (meaning your President) can fix this, is a tactic that's historically been used by some of the most despotic leaders.

    It came as no surprise to me when I read that Stephen Miller had a hand in writing the inaugural address. That man frightens me. When I say that there are elements with pronounced authoritarian characteristics, he is the type I'm thinking of.

    Quote from chare
    Exactly many children remain detained? And of these, how many are actually kept in tent cities? From what I have read, most of the children still detained are those that were stopped with other than family members. If this is the situation, what would you suggest we do with these children if family members are not available?

    It is my understanding that the separation of families, other than for brief periods mandated by required processing was stopped. And that if children were removed from their family for processing, they were reunited as quickly as possible.
    I admit I don't know the exact number. But I have seen various news reports recently that not all children have been reunited with their parents or relatives and that some of the kids will eventually be put up for adoption since their parents are already deported. Since I'm not providing any links to recent articles you'll have to take my recollection for what it is. It's what I remember reading is all.

    Have they actually completely stopped separating children them from their parents and detaining them? Or are we just seeing less media coverage about it? Honest question, because I'm not sure.

    What I am sure about is that I've never seen any real acknowledgement, or mea culpa, from this administration for what they've done to thousands of children and parents. We as nurses know that they've done real damage to innocent kids. It was a cruel policy and it was done deliberately to deter people from coming to your borders. That is in my opinion deeply upsetting and should be condemned.

    Quote from chare
    Yes, it is. Mr. Trump could greatly improve the world's opinion of him, his administration, and the U.S. if he would start acting more like the President, and the less like a spoiled child.
    Honestly, I think that ship has sailed. I respect you for acknowledging that his behavior is poor but after close to two years of his tweets, speeches, seeming lack of morals and comportment along with the administration's policies and backing out of various international agreements/treaties, I think "the world's" opinion of him is pretty much set in concrete.
  5. by   Lil Nel
    We have witnessed the GOP treat protesters as the enemy, many times in this country, macawake.

    I clearly remember speaking out, and protesting against the illogical invasion of Iraq, and how the GOP reacted to those protests.

    We were called traitors.

    So, nothing new. Same old tactics of Republicans.

    I don't believe most Trump supporters are authoritarian at heart.

    I agree with NY Times piece that shows they are supporters despite the rhetoric because he is good for their wallet.

    Read enough comments from supporters on these threads, and in the media and personal life to know that is true.
  6. by   Lil Nel
    Las Vegas gambling magnate Sheldon Adelson, just dumped an additional $25 million in Republican coffers, after already giving them $55 million, to help the GOP remain in power.

    Why did he do this?

    Most likely because his wallet benefits from GOP policies and short-sightedness.

    Just think about the enormous power to do good that money would have had if it had been spent on education, affordable housing, drug rehabilitation programs, ESL programs, etc.

    But those kind of things wouldn't personally benefit Mr. Adelson, would they?

    Well they would, but the immediate benefit to his wallet would be lost.
  7. by   herring_RN
    Quote from Lil Nel
    We have witnessed the GOP treat protesters as the enemy, many times in this country, macawake.

    I clearly remember speaking out, and protesting against the illogical invasion of Iraq, and how the GOP reacted to those protests.

    We were called traitors.

    So, nothing new. Same old tactics of Republicans.

    I don't believe most Trump supporters are authoritarian at heart.

    I agree with NY Times piece that shows they are supporters despite the rhetoric because he is good for their wallet.

    Read enough comments from supporters on these threads, and in the media and personal life to know that is true.
    Yes. Here on ALLNURSES there were many hateful illogical insults and faulty assumptions toward anyone not wanting to start the Iraq war:
    Can we justify killing the children?
  8. by   herring_RN
    Quote from Lil Nel
    Las Vegas gambling magnate Sheldon Adelson, just dumped an additional $25 million in Republican coffers, after already giving them $55 million, to help the GOP remain in power.

    Why did he do this?

    Most likely because his wallet benefits from GOP policies and short-sightedness.

    Just think about the enormous power to do good that money would have had if it had been spent on education, affordable housing, drug rehabilitation programs, ESL programs, etc.

    But those kind of things wouldn't personally benefit Mr. Adelson, would they?

    Well they would, but the immediate benefit to his wallet would be lost.
    Casino magnate Sheldon Adelson has never been more powerful.
    The Trump administration has advanced his ideological and financial interests, including an assist in his quest to build a casino in Japan
    ...

    Trump’s Patron-in-Chief: Casino Magnate Sheldon Adelson
  9. by   Ted
    Quote from herring_RN
    Yes. Here on ALLNURSES there were many hateful illogical insults and faulty assumptions toward anyone not wanting to start the Iraq war:
    Can we justify killing the children?

    [An Aside]

    Wow! It's been YEARS since I've seen many of the names (UserIDs) found on that thread started in 2003!! Some members have since moved on. Some have changed their UserID (right, herring_RN??? LOL!). That post was started back when the forum was known as "Current Events". It was also around that time when I accepted the role as moderator of that particular forum (before becoming one of the administrators of this web-site, like many members have been throughout the years). Just going down memory lane; feeling a bit sentimental. Seeing many of those old names (UserIDs) also reminded me of the good times we had, with this bulletin board being relatively young (and much smaller).

    [End Aside]

    I was called a traitor for being against the Iraq war. That hurt. As tempting as it might be for me to use that term for anyone supporting Trump, I refuse to use it. I know better.

    By the way, I STILL believe that the war in Iraq that was started by us was woefully wrong. It seems that it made that region worse, not better.
    Last edit by Ted on Oct 15
  10. by   toomuchbaloney
    I scored 14.77 on that authoritarian research.
    I answered the additional questions.

    My score is the highest of the three of us. I wonder if my faith tradition plays into that. Scratch that, if course it does.

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