Make American Great Again - page 3
I am an avid supporter of our President, Donald J Trump and am willing to respond to anyone who posts here. I would like to keep this thread free of name-calling (for anyone, including the... Read More
Dec 23, '17Quote from itsybitsyRegarding ad hominem attacks, Ted is merely imitating Trump's own tactics. Trump is receiving exactly the same treatment he's meted out to his critics all his life. Not particularly constructive, I'll grant you. What can I say except that Karma's a (w)itch.Appreciate what? You haven't said anything except an excessive amount of ad hominem.Last edit by heron on Dec 23, '17 : Reason: Non sequitur OP already responded
Dec 23, '17Quote from BCgradnurseAgain, why is everything on a certain website, you deem to be bias, not true? What sources would you prefer me to use? And for what it's worth, at least I'm using sources. The majority responding are responding with feelings.Your sources are extremely biased, so they don't hold any water with me. Using those sources damages your credibility.
Quote from BCgradnurseYou're stating your opinion and feelings of someone, that doesn't equal facts.The Trump presidency is evil and scary, and calling him what he is isn't name calling-it's stating facts.
Quote from BCgradnurseThat is your right. It is also your opinion.I'm calling him out on his actions, and that is my right to do so. He is unfit to be in that office. I am embarrassed that he is president. I don't think he has an ounce of integrity in him, and he does everything to stroke his own ego and for personal gain.
Quote from BCgradnurseThe White House has explained that DJT's tax returns are under audit. I haven't used the calculator to see how much he gains as I don't know how much he made last year, what assets, etc. Also, I don't know how much he will make this year, as his companies are in a trust run by his sons and he also isn't taking a salary as President.Where are his tax returns? Have you used your calculator to see how much he stands to gain from his tax bill?
Quote from BCgradnurseBut it is irrelevant to the fact that he won the Presidency, exactly how everyone else has won the Presidency. Also, it doesn't mean what you say it means. It actually means the majority of THOSE WHO VOTED, voted for a DIFFERENT candidate. Just because someone voted for a different candidate than DJT doesn't mean they didn't want DJT as President. It could mean they just wanted someone else more. However, since DJT won, some of those same people could be just as okay with DJT as President as he could have maybe been their second choice.The fact that he lost the popular election is very relevant. It means the majority of the American people do not want him as president.
Quote from BCgradnurseAre we still talking about Russia? I think if there was anything, they would have found it by now. Instead, all we have is a couple of false accusations based on people's inability to report, for a YEAR of investigating.The Mueller investigation is ongoing and we don't know for sure that there was not interference with the election. Therefore, we still don't know whether this election was valid or if he won fair and square. Time will tell.
He and his keeper Putin are ruining America.
Quote from BCgradnurseMe too. And I think we have our President!I want to live in a country that can hold her head up high. That treats all people equally. That doesn't discriminate. That believes in science. That has compassion, and not disdain for the poor and less abled. That isn't led by a small minded person with an emperor complex.
Quote from BCgradnurseSince you have so many sources, care to share what you are reading? I don't know how America is in big trouble with DJT. I think America is greater than before, as we are getting tax cuts! One example of a win for the home team.There are many sources that support what I'm saying here. In fact, too many to list. America is in big trouble with Trump in the White House. America was great before he was elected. Now we're going downhill fast.
Dec 23, '17Quote from heronI did.Hmm - are you going to respond to Muno?
Dec 23, '17Quote from itsybitsyI'm venting. Nothing more, nothing less. There are PLENTY of posts here, on the internet and on a VARIETY of reputable news media that demonstrate Trump as a dangerously poor choice to be our President. I challenge YOU to do some research other than the alt-right and other right-wing media outlets. It would be good for you. When statements are made that might seemingly disparage your precious Trump, know that a plethora of examples exist - by Trump's own making - that validate such comments.Appreciate what? You haven't said anything except an excessive amount of ad hominem.
Dec 23, '17Quote from Lil NelUh, I don't believe one nursing board is reflective of a whole country. Sorry.You know, itsy bitsy, I commend you for starting this thread. I really do. Because I believe you will that the folks who participate on the Breakroom side of the Web Site, are reflective of the American people as a whole when it comes to DJT. That means, given his historically low approval ratings, you will find few here who support him or his policies.
Quote from Lil NelEven if you believe all of that, how is that impeding your ability to have a discussion? I have opened myself up to extreme criticism and read insult after insult to our President. And I'm not any less willing to continue dialogue with those people. Why should I? Because they hold different viewpoint from myself? That have a word for that, it's called intolerance, or for a more commonly used term in today's political world, bigotry.And I wish I could engage with you, but I can't. And that because in order for me to engage with you, or others who believe what you believe, I must be willing to accept certain things such as: you support a person who openly mocked a disabled person, insulted a Gold Star family, sexually assaulted women and openly bragged about it, routinely calls the media "the enemy of the people," routinely attacks government institutions such as the FBI and CIA and judges, routinely mocks foreign leaders, imperils the safety of political opponents, just to name a few items.
I am unwilling to engage with folks who are so accepting and supportive of such behavior.
Yes, I am sure that even Hitler had his supporters who believed he was doing what was best for Germany, and Europe. But I wouldn't be interested in engaging with those folks either.
So you can continue to participate in an echo chamber, or you can learn others viewpoints and why they think the way they do. It is obviously up to you, so if you think you can't handle reading things that differ from your viewpoint, then don't.
Quote from Lil NelI don't think that's what you have to have to have constructive dialogue. I think an open-mind and willingness to listen and respond respectfully are the two basic necessities to converse.In order for there to a constructive dialogue about anything, there must be shared and common values. And I'm afraid we have no shared and common values, other than a professed love of country.
Best wishes to you.
Dec 23, '17Here's a start for you, itsybitsy. Just click on the links. Watch. Listen. Read. Learn.
President Donald Trump, The Liar - YouTube
President Trump's Lies, the Definitive List - The New York Times
Trump promised to "Clean the Swamp". That was a HUGE lie that was accepted by his supporters. Last updated in May of 2017, here's a list of Trump's Cabinet Members that make up "The Cesspool". . . many of whom are lessoning the quality of our country, and lesson the quality of life of the actual red-blooded citizens that actually make up our country.
Donald Trump's Cabinet Is Complete. Here's the Full List. - The New York Times
Edited to add:
THIS merits being repeated over and over again. It is an honest glimpse into Trump's soul.
Donald Trump On Tape: I Grab Women "By The Pu**y" - YouTubeLast edit by Ted on Dec 23, '17
Dec 23, '17Quote from TedWell as stated in the original post, I wanted dialogue and debate, not opinions and venting.I'm venting. Nothing more, nothing less. There are PLENTY of posts here, on the internet and on a VARIETY of reputable news media that demonstrate Trump as a dangerously poor choice to be our President. I challenge YOU to do some research other than the alt-right and other right-wing media outlets. It would be good for you. When statements are made that might seemingly disparage your precious Trump, know that a plethora of examples exist - by Trump's own making - that validate such comments.
Since you are the one saying that he is a danger, it would only be fair for YOU to back up your point with sources. Not me. I have stated my stance and reasoning, including sources for most of my statements that needed further evidence.
Believe me, I have read some monstrous things. But the thing is, that's ALL there is for the most part for MSM. I don't know what sources you want me to use. Not "alt-right" or right-wing. Do I HAVE to use left-wing media? Mainstream media? What? "Unbiased"? I challenge you to find an unbiased political website and refer me, I'll wait.
Why does everyone seem to believe that DJT is some "precious" thing? He's the President. Who's policies I voted for. I didn't vote for DJT because he was DJT. I voted for his policies, like all voters should do. Not because they are Republican or Democrat. In my opinion, (R) and (D) should be taken off the ballots, just leaving names of candidates. Then it would push people to actually learn each candidates policies, so they know what they are voting for instead of just straight one way or other. I think the majority of people would be surprised on who they vote for based on policy alone.
Dec 23, '17You are right, itsty bitsy. I am intolerant. I am intolerant of the thoughts and feelings of people who support and cheer on a person who: attacks a Gold Star family, calls for the jailing of political opponents, sexually assaults women and then openly brags about it, openly mock the disabled, call the media "the enemy of the people," openly mock world leaders, give political support and cover to pedophiles, give cover to White Nationalists and calls for violence at political rallies.
And you know what? ALL Americans should be intolerant of such things.
Dialogue doesn't simply happen because people refrain from name-calling and behave politely. I am sure neo-Nazis can behave very politely when they want to, and as a White woman, they would probably be very polite to me.
Without shared goals and values there is no dialogue.
I would think you would have discovered that by reading through even the limited responses to this thread.
Do you think you are engaging in a dialogue? You are not. And when I write this, it isn't meant as a criticism of you. It is simply an observation based on the thread.
Everyone, thus far has been respectful. But there is no dialogue.
Dec 23, '17The White House has explained that DJT's tax returns are under audit.
And the IRS and tax experts say that being under audit is no reason to withhold tax returns.
Fact-Check: Donald Trump Can't Release His Taxes While Being Audited? : NPR
Are we still talking about Russia? I think if there was anything, they would have found it by now. Instead, all we have is a couple of false accusations based on people's inability to report, for a YEAR of investigating.
You minimize the Russia investigation despite the fact that his former campaign manager and national security advisor are under indictment, and there has been a confession by a former aide. DJT Jr. has admitted to taking a meeting with Russians during the campaign. DJT met with Russians in the Oval Office and the public only learned about it through the Russian press.
Russia’s Oval Office Victory Dance - POLITICO Magazine
Since you have so many sources, care to share what you are reading? I don't know how America is in big trouble with DJT. I think America is greater than before, as we are getting tax cuts! One example of a win for the home team.
And why are Trump supporters so certain that media sources that have been trustworthy for decades and now not reliable?
As for the tax cut, I will be squirreling mine away, to ready for sky-rocketing insurance premiums and the loss of Medicare and social security, that I was hoping to use soon.
Dec 23, '17Finally. . . .
itsybitsy - Any member here can easily be looked up for posting history and to when he or she joined this bulletin board. So, I looked up your history. You are either a relatively new member or your UserID is a second account to this bulletin board. Either way, it seems that most if not all of your posts are associated with this one thread. Please know that many of us have been on this bulletin board for a long time. Most hold interests, and share posts that are not necessarily political in nature. Most, who align themselves to both political parties, are really good nurses and equally nice individuals. Please spend some time to get to know us beyond U.S. Politics. I share this to you only with deep respect, and an interest to get to know YOU better other than through political bantering.
With that said. . . I wish to share to you some insight into my thinking and values that ultimately makes their way into my political points of views. Here is a post that I wrote and shared here earlier this year. It seems that you and I hold vastly different political points of view. Again with no apologies, I believe Trump to be dangerous to our country. Here is a mini-essay that explains why I find the policies and political ideologies held by Trump and Trump's Administration to be dangerous.
The "Bottom Line" that Shapes My Political Point of View
Dec 23, '17itsybitsy - With no apologies, it's beyond debate for me. Anyway, here is a post that I wrote earlier this year that might explain why I find the policies and political ideologies held by Trump and Trump's Administration to be dangerous to our country. I share to you insight to my thinking process and values. . .
The "Bottom Line" that Shapes My Political Point of ViewLast edit by Ted on Dec 23, '17
Dec 23, '17Quote from TedI watched the youtube video. It was difficult to follow.Here's a start for you, itsybitsy. Just click on the links. Watch. Listen. Read. Learn.
President Donald Trump, The Liar - YouTube
President Trump's Lies, the Definitive List - The New York Times
1. He mentioned taxes couldn't be lowered. Perhaps he thought that to be truth. President Obama believed the same thing. Is the video saying he lied because he introduced a tax bill reform, thereby actually decreasing taxes? Or??
2. With David Letterman, I don't know what they are saying he is lying about. They show that his clothing brand is made in Bangladesh and China. He was a business man. Why wouldn't he take advantage of the lower cost of manufacturing in other countries to make more money. I would. DJT also admitted to doing it because he could, it was legal. Many large businesses do. Why couldn't DJT? He was saying he wants to take that away, knowing it would hurt himself. He wants to bring the jobs back to American workers.
3. Saying he lied about receiving a small loan. Maybe not small to many of use, but for what his father's worth was and for what DJT now worth is, it is relatively small to what has been produced since. Some people might take that "small loan" and blow it in a day.
4. Lying that his net worth was over 10 billion. DJT said it was 10B after all debt and liabilities. He didn't hide that.
5. Ending special interest monopoly in DC. Says he is lying because his campaign manager is Manafort. I don't think you can call that lying. He wants to get rid of pay to play. Just because his campaign manager is a successful lobbyist, doesn't mean he is lying.
6. Lying that we can bring back manufacturing because most manufacturing goods are made by machines. Well, you need people to run the machines, I don't know why that is a "lie".
7. Supposably lying that we need the jobs back. But that's a lie because transportation and logical jobs have increased by 7 million jobs. Okay, I can see how we just replaced one type of job with another, that we don't really need the other jobs back. But do we? We have an ever growing population and to continue our downward trend of unemployment.
8. When mentioning NAFTA, the lie is that it was disastrous. I guess if you think losing 700,000 jobs is good. However, majority of people, economists believe it to be beneficial in the long run for jobs and growth. And had we not lost the jobs to Mexico, they believe we would have lost them to China. Since that, DJT has agreed to renegotiate NAFTA with Mexico. I guess you could call him a liar for saying it was a disaster, but he is renegotiating instead of being prideful and working to dismantle it.
9. Is it a lie that Iran is the dominate power in the Middle East? That was Hillary's job, to prevent that. But that is supposably a lie because of an irrelevant topic that Hillary helped end Iran's nuclear program, even though she was gone from the administration 2.5 years before the deal was struck. That is one part of the whole issue. Secondly, we PAID them for their nuclear material, tens of billions of dollars, hence power. Additionally, the administration admitted that money would AT LEAST partially go to terrorist groups... And they still have nuclear material!
Iran nuclear deal back in the news | PolitiFact Wisconsin
(is this too right-wing for you)
10. That Syria isn't stable. Well they now have slave trade.
11. ISIS is a force from Obama and Hillary. Not apparently true because the (only the) Republicans war in Iraq. ISIS didn't re-emerge as the full-force we know today until 2014, where it expanded during the Obama presidency.
12. DJT did criticize Bush's decision for the Iraq war before it started. The little radio broadcast tidbit is taken out of context.
13. Hillary doesn't have integrity or temperament. It's a lie because she has held 3 government positions? Not relevant to integrity or temperament. You can have neither and serve your whole life in government. I can think of plenty of career politicians who demonstrate this.
14. That Hillary would let refugees in without screening. Well if it's anything like how it is now in Europe, I believe it. I don't think it was ever a plan to continue the rigorous vetting process.
15. The video says the Pulse Night Club shooter wasn't a Taliban supporter, evidenced by the shooters FATHER condemning the Taliban. Sorry, different people and the shooter HAD contact.
16. Hillary did say she wanted open-boarders - I know context is key with this particular statement, but no one can be entirely sure during paid for rallies... Not sure on the "amnesty for 100 days" part.
(Side note: Many of these "lies", don't seem to be lies when you break them down or at least not rationalized as to why they are lies very well. The small tidbits after each statement state things completely irrelevant to what is being said. Example: Hillary says she hates the U.S. (LIE) Hillary spent many years helping impoverished children of the U.S. - Like, that doesn't dispute the original statement. Yes, it's related in a sense that Hillary has helped U.S. citizens, but not like "Hillary never said that, she said this...")
17. Hillary wants more refugees on top of what we already have. But it's a lie because our legal permeant residence is way down? Sorry, maybe we should take care of our vets before adding on 500,000 refugees to medicaid.
18. I'm not sure on the numbers. It could be a lie, but Hillary's refugee settlement program never happened so I don't know.
19. Lift energy restrictions. A lie because energy production is an all time high under Obama. I don't think it's a lie if you are talking coal and fracking. I don't now why this one is in here. Kind of a stretch.
20. Repeal and replace Obamacare. Not a lie. DJT does want to. The rationale doesn't even say it's a lie but only that people would lose health insurance. I know part of it is no one will be force to get insurance or be billed from the IRS. DJT is removing that. Which most people would be happy. They aren't forced to pay for something. I don't know who is losing health insurance. Someone is paying for something.
21. Talking about Obamacare, being a total disaster. Evidenced by "U.S. has achieved 58 consecutive months of job growth"... What?! Is it trying to say because you get insurance through jobs?
22. Highest taxed nation in the world. I suppose, he should have explained himself better:
WH clarifies Trump's 'highest taxed nation' claim | TheHill
23. Hillary's message is old and tired - Not true because apparently the DNC is the most progressive. You can claim to be "progressive" and old and tired at the same time... There WAS a lack of innovating policies Hillary supported during the campaigning. Perhaps not Bernie, there was new light there, what "progressive" meant. Sorry Bernie supporters...
24. American's are the ones who came to the West. They are... Native American's and Mexican's are all American's (North America). Came from Pangea, as opposed to going to the East and South. If you were here, you were American. It didn't matter where you came from. This video is stretching that he was implying ONLY white people were American's. But he never said nor implied that.
25. Claiming DJT doesn't believe in America first because he apparently scammed students and is being sued for fraud. I'll leave that one. I don't know where to go with it.
26. Make America rich again. Claiming DJT will add 10 trillion to the national debt. That hasn't happened yet and I can think of someone everyone loves that actually did just that.
I looked at the NYT article. I'm not reviewing it. The article itself is too unorganized to even start with. Plus, I'm being hammered for posting "right-wing" news sources... NYT is a YUGE left-wing supporter. Play the game I have been, try to find unbiased.