How will history judge us?

  1. How will history judge us? This is the most degrading thing I have ever witnessed in my life. As healthcare professionals, we know the psychological effects of Erik Erikson stages of development, the impairments these camps will cause the children. How can we witness something deplorable and not voice our concern?. These are questions our kids and grandchildren will ask us one day. What did you do when discovered that the federal government placed kids in cages and took them away from their parents? I am urging every healthcare professional to unite and speak the truth to every media outlet and every level of government, airlines, the bus company. Since these kids are in different parts of the state.
    Before anyone writes anything that I am not a true American, I want to make it clear I love this country. I admire what it stands for, and hope one day it could live up to creed that all men are created equal and endowed to its creator by certain unalienable rights which are "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
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    About luv2

    Joined: Aug '11; Posts: 181; Likes: 238

    363 Comments

  3. by   macawake
    Quote from luv2
    How will history judge us?
    Harshly would be my guess.

    Quote from luv2
    Before anyone writes anything that I am not a true American, I want to make it clear I love this country. I admire what it stands for, and hope one day it could live up to creed that all men are created equal and endowed to its creator by certain unalienable rights which are "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
    OP, speaking as a European, I think that you are a true American. Unless I've completely misunderstood what values the Statue of Liberty is meant to represent, reacting with horror at state-sanctioned child abuse and the inhumane treatment of refugees; is the essence of being an American.

    The world is watching. The policy of separating children, including infants and toddlers, from their parents, simply because the parents are suspected of committing a misdemeanor is CRUEL, disproportionate and unworthy of an evolved society. This kind of dehumanizing treatment of a group of people is laying the groundwork for a fascist state where some people are worth more than other people, based solely on skin color, ethnicity, religion or race. If anyone doesn't believe me, I think history proves me right.

    This policy has damaged your standing and reputation in the world and it will take a long time before you will regain our trust and respect. Shameful behavior. You of all countries are supposed to be better than this, but it seems history is rearing its ugly head.

    I don't understand how any medical or nursing professional can react with anything other than condemnation of this policy. I shouldn't matter whether you vote R, D, I or not at all. This is a question of common decency. It's having a heart or not having a heart. The protection of children is something we should all be able to unite around.

    It's entirely possible to be completetly in support of strong border security without WIlLFULLY adding additional long-term trauma to children and adults who in all likelyhood have already experienced trauma in their lives. They are refugees for a reason. What makes this even worse is that I suspect the cruelty of this policy was deliberate.

    All medical professionals should indeed condemn this inhumane policy. We KNOW that it will cause permanent damage to these children. It's unconscionable. It's heartbreaking.

    I sincerely hope that the moderators will allow this thread to remain here on the yellow side because this issue is in my opinion too important to be "relegated" off to the blue side.


    This question derfinititely has medical as well a political ramifications, but more important than that; your nation's very soul hangs in the balance.


    OP, good for you for speaking up!
  4. by   Triddin
    I haven't understood the trump administration since he was elected. I am hoping this latest event wakes the america people up to what kind of person he is and what he is turning America into.
    Last edit by Triddin on Jun 21
  5. by   GrumpyRN
    Got to agree with macawake, it seems that you are failing as a species. America is - or used to be - better than this.

    Trump is not welcome in the UK by the people - the politicians of course will crawl all over him.
  6. by   NICU Guy
    Quote from luv2
    How can we witness something deplorable and not voice our concern?. These are questions our kids and grandchildren will ask us one day. What did you do when discovered that the federal government placed kids in cages and took them away from their parents?
    The kids were not put in cages. The Department of Health and Human Services released a video of the children's camp. It looks like a summer camp with dorm rooms, playground, kids in a classroom. Rachel Maddow Cries - YouTube
  7. by   WestCoastSunRN
    Quote from Guy in Babyland
    The kids were not put in cages. The Department of Health and Human Services released a video of the children's camp. It looks like a summer camp with dorm rooms, playground, kids in a classroom. Rachel Maddow Cries - YouTube
    I don't care if it was the Four Seasons, children were separated from their parents. It was a big-league bad move. And it was very UN-American.
  8. by   klone
    Quote from Guy in Babyland
    The kids were not put in cages.
    In several facilities, they are being kept in large chain-link penned off areas, with chain link partitions.

    We shouldn't even be having a semantical debate about what constitutes a "cage." The fact that people are defending this means we've already lost as a nation. They were RIPPED FROM THEIR PARENTS AND INCARCERATED.

    Are Children Being Kept in 'Cages' at the Border? - The Atlantic
  9. by   macawake
    Quote from Guy in Babyland
    The kids were not put in cages. The Department of Health and Human Services released a video of the children's camp. It looks like a summer camp with dorm rooms, playground, kids in a classroom. Rachel Maddow Cries - YouTube
    The government-approved tour that some journalists were allowed to make of a facility in Texas, clearly showed "rooms" with walls made of chain-link. But does it even matter? You being a nurse in babyland (!) surely know that you could house a toddler in a de luxe suite at a five star hotel. The TRAUMA done to them comes from forcibly removing them from their parents, not the amenities in their new location. It's the absence of a parent's love and the security that a parent's presence provides that will cause them long-term damage. The chain-link walls just make the photographs even more ugly, the trauma is inflicted regardless.
  10. by   Horseshoe
    Quote from klone

    We shouldn't even be having a semantical debate about what constitutes a "cage."
    I agree. SMH...
  11. by   Kyrshamarks
    Thise kids in cages pictures were from the Obama era.
  12. by   Rocknurse
    Quote from Kyrshamarks
    Thise kids in cages pictures were from the Obama era.
    Are you kidding me? Is this the depth that Trump supporters have sunk to now? The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families but didn't have the practice of forcibly separating children from their families.
  13. by   Rocknurse
    Here's a little educated perspective:

    Have you heard that children were separated from their parents under Obama & Clinton? Then, you need a little Facts vs Myths lesson. Michelle Martin, PhD Cal State Fullerton summed up the most important FACTS:

    There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy that requires criminal prosecution, which then warrants the separating of parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research...As a professor at a local Cal State, I research and write about these issues, so here, I'll make it easier for you:

    Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly and Stephen Miller to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families, but didn't have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit. https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...ce=govdelivery

    Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration - FALSE. Annual trends show that arrests for undocumented entry are at a 46 year low, and undocumented crossings dropped in 2007, with a net loss (more people leaving than arriving). Deportations have increased steadily though (spiking in 1996 and more recently), because several laws that were passed since 1996 have made it legally more difficult to gain legal status for people already here, and thus increased their deportations (I address this later under the myth that it's the Democrats' fault). What we mostly have now are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, many of these people impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy appear to be political asylum-seekers. Arrests For Illegal Border Crossings Hit 46-Year Low : NPR

    Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs - FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible. Meatpackers' Profits Hinge On Pool of Immigrant Labor - The New York Times

    Myth: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get - FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do. U.S. companies recruiting millions of undocumented immigrants - UPI.com

    Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because there parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents - FALSE. First, in the case of economic migrants crossing the border illegally, criminal prosecution has not been the legal norm, and families have been kept together at all cost. Also, crossing the border without documentation is a typically a misdemeanor not requiring arrest, but rather a civil proceeding. Additionally, parents who have been detained have historically been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers," again, for civil processing. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones. See p. 18: Ms. L v. ICE - Plaintiffs' Opposition to Defendants' Motion to Dismiss (Doc. #56) | American Civil Liberties Union

    Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law, nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements: Jeff Sessions claims asylum system rampant with fraud and abuse | PolitiFact

    Myth: The Democrats caused this, "it's their law." FALSE. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats caused this, the Trump administration did (although the Republicans could fix this today, and have refused). I believe what this myth refers to is the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, which were both passed under Clinton in 1996. These laws essentially made unauthorized entry into the US a crime (typically a misdemeanor for first-time offenders), but under both Republicans and Democrats, these cases were handled through civil deportation proceedings, not a criminal proceeding, which did not require separation. And again, even in cases where detainment was required, families were always kept together in family residential centers, unless the parents were deemed unfit (as mentioned above). Thus, Trump's assertion that he hates this policy but has no choice but to separate the parents from their children, because the Democrats "gave us this law" is false and nothing more than propaganda designed to compel negotiation on bad policy. Trump says it is the Democrats' fault children are being taken away from their families at the US border | The Independent

    Myth: The parents and children will be reunited shortly, once the parents' court cases are finalized. FALSE. Criminal court is a vastly different beast than civil court proceedings. Also, the children are being processed as unaccompanied minors ("unaccompanied alien children"), which typically means they are sent into the custody of the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR), which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS). Under normal circumstances when a child enters the country without his or her parent, ORR attempts to locate a family member within a few weeks, and the child is then released to a family member, or if a family member cannot be located, the child is placed in a residential center (anywhere in the country), or in some cases, foster care. Prior to Trump's new policy, ORR was operating at 95% capacity, and they simply cannot effectively manage the influx of 2000+ children, some as young as 4 months. Also, keep in mind, these are not unaccompanied minor children, they have parents. There is great legal ambiguity on how and even whether the parents will get their children back because we are in uncharted territory right now. According to the ACLU lawsuit (see below), there is currently no easy vehicle for reuniting parents with their children. Additionally, according to a May 2018 report, numerous cases of verbal, physical and sexual abuse were found to have occurred in these residential centers. ACLU Obtains Documents Showing Widespread Abuse of Child Immigrants in U.S. Custody | American Civil Liberties Union

    Myth: This policy is legal. LIKELY FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6/18, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit. Judge Calls Trump's Border Separations of Children `Brutal' - Bloomberg
  14. by   TriciaJ
    Quote from Guy in Babyland
    The kids were not put in cages. The Department of Health and Human Services released a video of the children's camp. It looks like a summer camp with dorm rooms, playground, kids in a classroom. Rachel Maddow Cries - YouTube
    The cage shot was from during the Obama administration. Most of those kids were not traveling with their parents in the first place. They are brought into the country by coyotes and traffickers. There used to be family detention centers but Obama scuppered them with a bill that looked good in the short term. Parents should not be bringing their kids (or sending them) on such an arduous and illegal journey.

    The mainstream media histrionics really need to be dialed down. This is a problem that has been ongoing for the past several administrations.

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