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azhiker96 azhiker96 (New Member) New Member

Thoughts on a US civil war.

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Another civil war probably isn't likely, but he's right that most of the ingredients are there. The one that worries me the most (other than the incredible glut of firearms in this country) is the growing distrust in media. Especially when political leaders and contenders for office reinforce this distrust with every other sentence. Once upon a time, journalism was an honorable profession, and it was seen as such. What if no one had paid attention to Woodward and Bernstein? Would Watergate have been brushed under the rug as a "liberal media lie?" What if the muckrakers had been derided as mere sensationalists and their exposes of business and political corruption, to say nothing of "The Jungle," (which still grosses me out) went unread?

When you feel you can't trust anyone, the only people you can trust are the ones telling you exactly what you want to hear, what you already believe. When all the people have their own version of truth, truth ceases to exist--no one knows how or where to look for it. The end result will be a population in which most people stop caring. You can hear it already when people talk about politicians--"They're all the same, crooks and liars." Apathy is the enemy of democracy, because the only people who care enough to vote are extremists who support equally extremist candidates. And when all the politicians stand at opposite ends of each issue and refuse to take a single step toward the middle, nothing gets done. Well, nothing good, anyway.

This is how civil wars start--neither side giving an inch, with fanatics on both sides screaming that something must be done. And we're a lot closer to that place than I'm personally comfortable with. I still don't expect war, but something wicked this way comes if all this rage and hatred doesn't simmer down--soon.

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Do you think Obama or Trump can slow the simmer?

At this point it's taken on a life of its own. I think Trump needs to speak out against the hate speech and crimes that are being performed in his name. I think those protesting his presidency need to keep in mind that violence is not the answer. I'm all for peaceful protest, but no violence, please.

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At this point it's taken on a life of its own. I think Trump needs to speak out against the hate speech and crimes that are being performed in his name. I think those protesting his presidency need to keep in mind that violence is not the answer. I'm all for peaceful protest, but no violence, please.

Frankly, I find the notion that the man who ran one of the most negative and divisive campaigns in history complete with routine name calling, mocking, and vulgarity is now credible to speak out against exactly those things to simply fantastic.

It's going to be a very interesting 4 years.

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Frankly, I find the notion that the man who ran one of the most negative and divisive campaigns in history complete with routine name calling, mocking, and vulgarity is now credible to speak out against exactly those things to simply fantastic.

It's going to be a very interesting 4 years.

Yes, he's getting exactly what he was calling for throughout his campaign. It is extremely hypocritical of him to act as if he's offended or to be advocating for calm and reason.

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As to whether Trump or Obama can calm things down: I think Trump will make a token effort to stem the tide of rage and vitriol, but peace-making isn't his forte. He's good at stoking fires, not putting them out.

As for Obama, the people who most need to hear his words never listened to him to begin with; they aren't going to start now.

What a mess.

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Personally, I don't think that the Trump presidency is all that determinative when it comes to civil war in the US. The stresses listed in the article have much deeper roots than one huckster's campaign rhetoric.

This article was very helpful to me because it made me wrap my mind around the possible consequences of clinging to denial. I think there's time, yet ... but we said the same thing about climate change thirty years ago.

As we accelerate the destruction of the biosphere that feeds us, more and more land becomes unliveable and populations shift seeking to survive. This will escalate the stresses on our social and political systems here in the US.

Right now, I feel like I'm watching a slow-motion train wreck.

ETA: happily, I still have spring bulbs that need planting. Reason seems to be failing us ... maybe magic will work! As a self-comforting behavior, it sure beats Ativan! :geek:

Edited by heron

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[quote=heron;

ETA: happily, I still have spring bulbs that need planting. Reason seems to be failing us ... maybe magic will work! As a self-comforting behavior, it sure beats Ativan! :geek:

Thank you for bringing it back down to the real. Life goes on. There is always hope

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Thank you for bringing it back down to the real. Life goes on. There is always hope

Just because those population shifts are happening in far-away places at this time doesn't make them "unreal". What makes you think the US is immune? Aren't a significant number of our own citizens already hot to trot to build a wall on our southern border?

Yes, there's always hope ... but let's not ignore the fact that the world is already irreversibly changed and the US is at just as much at risk for badness as anywhere in Africa or Asia.

You're right, though. Hope is what enables us to bring it down to individual choices in the present moment, which is the only way most of us have to affect our collective destiny.

Edited by heron

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Yes, he's getting exactly what he was calling for throughout his campaign. It is extremely hypocritical of him to act as if he's offended or to be advocating for calm and reason.

To those of us who do not support him, yes, it is hypocritical. But many of his acolytes hang on his every word and may respond to his call to cool things down.

I'm dreaming, aren't I?

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To those of us who do not support him, yes, it is hypocritical. But many of his acolytes hang on his every word and may respond to his call to cool things down.

I'm dreaming, aren't I?

Yes. :)

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