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The President Donald Trump Thread

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10 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

Well, I hate to point this out to you, but Beshear didn't make his social distancing recommendation until March 11.  A week after the date used by the study you brought up.

If you dont or cant answer my question, I understand.  I'll move on.

Ouch....KY has almost twice number of deaths per capita then TN.  That doesnt look good for your governor. 

Oh, so forgot to offer to explain to you, what declaring a SOE on March 6, allowed Beshear to do.

I am happy to explain it you, dude.

Again, my governor was on the ball, while Trump was still making moronic statements about warm weather killing the virus, and there being a vaccine in no time, and it all being a hoax.

He actions were the very definition of flailing.

Flail, flail, to no avail!

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10 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

...Ouch....KY has almost twice number of deaths per capita then TN.  That doesnt look good for your governor. 

The total number of American deaths looks terrific for the leader of the federal response...just shy of 100,000 dead and President Preposterous wishes us Happy Memorial Day from his golf course. 

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10 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

Well, I hate to point this out to you, but Beshear didn't make his social distancing recommendation until March 11.  A week after the date used by the study you brought up.

[...]

Officials Confirm State’s First COVID-19 Case

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3 minutes ago, chare said:

Thank you, Chare.

As I have previously stated, the first CVirus case in KY, occurred in one of the three counties served by the local health department I used to work for.

Spent a lot of time training in Harrison County.

And I surely know when Beshear declared that SOE!

Was someone trying to gaslight me?

 

 

 

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Voting by mail does not help Democrats more than Republicans and does not incubate fraud — but does generate a bit more turnout, a pair of academic studies out Thursday conclude.

This article was written a month ago and I can't vouch for its sources.   But again I have to ask in these times do facts matter?

https://thefulcrum.us/voting/vote-by-mail-studies

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1 hour ago, Lil Nel said:

Oh, so forgot to offer to explain to you, what declaring a SOE on March 6, allowed Beshear to do.

I am happy to explain it you, dude.

Again, my governor was on the ball, while Trump was still making moronic statements about warm weather killing the virus, and there being a vaccine in no time, and it all being a hoax.

He actions were the very definition of flailing.

Flail, flail, to no avail!

My fault for encouraging the deflective comments.

Back to the discussion I was trying to have.  We left off with me asking you to help me understand why, keeping in mind the timeline I provided, it's Trump's fault that social distancing efforts weren't put in place a week before they were?  

 

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17 minutes ago, Tweety said:

This article was written a month ago and I can't vouch for its sources.   But again I have to ask in these times do facts matter?

https://thefulcrum.us/voting/vote-by-mail-studies

Both sides have their motivations.  And neither is altruistic,  imo.  Sad thing is, as the article alludes to, each side is just as likely to get bit in the buttocks as they are to benefit from whatever voting method is used.

I read that about 1% of mail in votes were rejected last time. 2-3 % for blacks and hispanics.

I guess there isnt much evidence voting fraud exists based on prosecution stats someone posted earlier.  Not much evidence people roll through the stop sign on my street either, but guess what?

I get the wrong mail delivered to me once or twice a month.  I wonder how many people take their roommates,  son/daughter, or parents ballot without anyone knowing any different?  How about mail delivered to where someone has moved from?  Maybe a very tiny percentage make a difference, but that might be all that matters in many races.

Personally, absentee votes aside and maybe a few other exceptions I'm not thinking of, voting should be done in person.  

I foresee any expansion of mail in voting is going to lead to a mess.  Whatever side closely loses in whatever races, there is going to be recounts demanded, lawsuits filed, etc. and mail in voting will be blamed.

 

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41 minutes ago, Lucylu71 said:

My fault for encouraging the deflective comments.

Back to the discussion I was trying to have.  We left off with me asking you to help me understand why, keeping in mind the timeline I provided, it's Trump's fault that social distancing efforts weren't put in place a week before they were?  

 

I believe you left off trying to make an absurd comparison between KY and TN CVirus death rates, while gaslighting me.

 

Edited by Lil Nel

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1 hour ago, Lucylu71 said:

Both sides have their motivations.  And neither is altruistic,  imo.  Sad thing is, as the article alludes to, each side is just as likely to get bit in the buttocks as they are to benefit from whatever voting method is used.

I read that about 1% of mail in votes were rejected last time. 2-3 % for blacks and hispanics.

I guess there isnt much evidence voting fraud exists based on prosecution stats someone posted earlier.  Not much evidence people roll through the stop sign on my street either, but guess what?

I get the wrong mail delivered to me once or twice a month.  I wonder how many people take their roommates,  son/daughter, or parents ballot without anyone knowing any different?  How about mail delivered to where someone has moved from?  Maybe a very tiny percentage make a difference, but that might be all that matters in many races.

Personally, absentee votes aside and maybe a few other exceptions I'm not thinking of, voting should be done in person.  

I foresee any expansion of mail in voting is going to lead to a mess.  Whatever side closely loses in whatever races, there is going to be recounts demanded, lawsuits filed, etc. and mail in voting will be blamed.

 

Sure. 

The "both sides" nonsense and equivocation. One side spouts all manner of fears about the overall unreliability or honesty or personal integrity of the average voter...without evidence to support that mail in voting increases very low numbers of voting fraud...while ignoring evidence of unreliability, profound dishonesty and a complete lack of personal integrity in their political leader. 

The other side wants people to vote.  All eligible voters.  Widespread unhindered voting across all states AND territories. Universal voting registration at birth as a citizen. Easy, government provided ID for voting. Just because the GOP is trying to limit voting rights doesn't mean that one can throw out unsupported disparaging claims about others to make that not seem so bad. 

What opponents to increased opportunity and ability to easily vote FEAR, will be a mess for their political ideology and those who believe in it. 

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1 hour ago, Lil Nel said:

I believe you left off trying to make an absurd comparison between KY and TN CVirus death rates, while gaslighting me.

 

Yep. Any discussion which doesn't include accountability for Trump or his merry band of exquisitely inept leaders, but very fine charlatans, grifters and opportunists. 

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4 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

Both sides have their motivations.  And neither is altruistic,  imo.  Sad thing is, as the article alludes to, each side is just as likely to get bit in the buttocks as they are to benefit from whatever voting method is used.

I read that about 1% of mail in votes were rejected last time. 2-3 % for blacks and hispanics.

I guess there isnt much evidence voting fraud exists based on prosecution stats someone posted earlier.  Not much evidence people roll through the stop sign on my street either, but guess what?

I get the wrong mail delivered to me once or twice a month.  I wonder how many people take their roommates,  son/daughter, or parents ballot without anyone knowing any different?  How about mail delivered to where someone has moved from?  Maybe a very tiny percentage make a difference, but that might be all that matters in many races.

Personally, absentee votes aside and maybe a few other exceptions I'm not thinking of, voting should be done in person.  

I foresee any expansion of mail in voting is going to lead to a mess.  Whatever side closely loses in whatever races, there is going to be recounts demanded, lawsuits filed, etc. and mail in voting will be blamed.

 

There's a reason Trump's HHS recognized Colorado and the other states that have moved to vote-by-mail-only as having the most secure elections in the country, there's been no evidence that in multiple elections since these states moved to vote-by-mail as the only way to vote of a resulting "mess" .

I get your stop sign argument; we can't measure the rate of occurrence of the things we don't know occurs, but in the case of mail-in voting a better analogy would be the accuracy of the number of drivers who roll through a stop sign where there is a rolling stop sensor and a camera.  

It seems as though people assume mail-in-voting consists of just sending blank ballots with no security measures in place, so that you could just go around and take them out of people's mailboxes and use them to successfully vote on their behalf.

These systems utilize ballot tracking (which include a buffer between your identity and your vote) which can determine if a ballot was cast by a person who reports they never received a ballot and can the cancel that ballot, you also have to match the signature of the voter that is on record in the system.  The nature of vote-by-mail also limits the potential types of voter fraud like voting outside of the district where you currently reside, or voting in multiple districts.  There are certainly limitations to the security of this system but not nearly as many issues as with in-person voting.  

The concerning actual reason behind Trump's latest push to delegitimize the premise of democratic elections is that he'd prefer to trade the foundations of democracy for staying in power. 

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16 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

Both sides have their motivations.  And neither is altruistic,  imo.  Sad thing is, as the article alludes to, each side is just as likely to get bit in the buttocks as they are to benefit from whatever voting method is used.

I read that about 1% of mail in votes were rejected last time. 2-3 % for blacks and hispanics.

I guess there isnt much evidence voting fraud exists based on prosecution stats someone posted earlier.  Not much evidence people roll through the stop sign on my street either, but guess what?

I get the wrong mail delivered to me once or twice a month.  I wonder how many people take their roommates,  son/daughter, or parents ballot without anyone knowing any different?  How about mail delivered to where someone has moved from?  Maybe a very tiny percentage make a difference, but that might be all that matters in many races.

Personally, absentee votes aside and maybe a few other exceptions I'm not thinking of, voting should be done in person.  

I foresee any expansion of mail in voting is going to lead to a mess.  Whatever side closely loses in whatever races, there is going to be recounts demanded, lawsuits filed, etc. and mail in voting will be blamed.

 

I think right now the motivation is safety.  I seriously do and I'm a cynical person.  In Flroida's hotspots in South Florida, they've asked the governor to expand mail in voting as well.  With him being a Trump supporter, it's doubtful he'll break his allegiance with Trump to promote it.  Florida's infection rate remains relatively high with 800 plus cases yesterday, but death rates are falling. In fact there's buzz Republicans would like Trump to move the convention here to Florida.

However, Florida has had mail in votes for many years and in fact one-third of voters took advantage of it.  That's a lot of people and it hasn't proven to be a mess. So whether or not the governor pushes to expand it for safety reasons, it remains a popular option and one I think the populace will expand on their own.

The idea that Trump is promoting that people will be forced to vote for someone they choose not to is pure conspiracy and fear mongering.  I still am not getting his motivation against it.  With his "liberate Michigan", wanting large crowds to be able to gather at his convention, promoting church services as essential, his not role modeling mask safety, his motivation certainly doesn't seem to be safety.

 I voted by mail once at the beginning but since my schedule has included Tuesdays off for many years I just vote in person on Election Day since it's just a few blocks away and I can go on off hours.  I voted in. person in the primaries when we were first starting to hear about social distancing and they had some good measures in place, so I felt safe.  But since then it has really spread to 50,000 people here. We also have had a voter ID law as long as I've voted here, nearly 30 years. 

Here in Florida the demographic that seems be mostly continuing with safety and social distancing is the older population.  This is anecdotal from own personal observations.  This is a good thing because they are the ones with the most co-morbidities and  The older population here is a good deal of Republican voters and vote in larger numbers than younger people.  I would think Republicans would want to tap into this.    My elderly (and Republican) parents in North Carolina are into week 10 of lockdown there and said they would continue to do so as their own personal choice, which I support and practically demand of them...let younger healthy people make their own choice as well.   I haven't asked them, but I'm thinking they would want to vote by mail option if elections were held today.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article242180901.html

Edited by Tweety

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