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The Caravan

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You are reading page 21 of The Caravan. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

I don't know who "they" are but I can tell you that as a conservative not only would I not mock anyone attempting to assist those in need I have myself assisted those in need at the border and other places as well. Some here denied that Obama separated children from their parents but I know he did because I sent a donation to assist those at that time. I think the reason people bring up Obama, Clinton etc is to show that there is some hypocrisy when it comes to these issues.

The reason that illegal immigration is such a big concern with some people is because they see the affect in their communities and know first hand what the problems are. Others know how much it is costing them. The reason people say they are just letting them in etc. is because the gov is not doing anything to stop them. They may not be just simply walking through the front door but when you have 12 million (and estimates go up to 20 million) living, working, taking gov. benefits etc then it is obvious that someone is just letting them come, and stay here.

I believe that the immigration problem has been going on for a very long time and both parties are responsible, because both are either kicking the can down the road or playing politics (for whatever reason) or both.

Personally I don't have a problem with immigration when done legally. I am tired of people calling others racist because someone has a different idea about how immigration should be handled.

Just as you (and others) are frustrated that it is such a huge concern with people, those people are just as frustrated that others don't see why it is such a concern to them. (And again it has nothing to do with the race of people).

There are many issues that should be dealt with in America today and that is why I wish our politicians would do just that. There are very few that seem to working for the people instead of themselves, their reelection etc.

I think that racism is always wrong and it makes me sad to think that it is increasing. I am not sure it is fair to blame one person, I think there are many factors that should be addressed.

Back to the border: The US simply cannot have people rushing the border to push through. If not tear gas to stop what would you suggest. Politicians on both sides as well as the media need to just stop with the rhetoric and pass some common sense/fair legislation that would stop this once and for all. Do any of us really think they are incapable of doing that?

Sorry for the ramble Tweety, not all aimed at you personally.

Yeah, I really do think that our current Republican leadership is incapable of legislating common sense and fair immigration policy. They have controlled Congress for 8 years and they were unable to provide that leadership. Now they are stirring racial animosity and fear around the topic of immigration rather than doing anything constructive.

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I don't know who "they" are but I can tell you that as a conservative not only would I not mock anyone attempting to assist those in need I have myself assisted those in need at the border and other places as well. Some here denied that Obama separated children from their parents but I know he did because I sent a donation to assist those at that time. I think the reason people bring up Obama, Clinton etc is to show that there is some hypocrisy when it comes to these issues.

The reason that illegal immigration is such a big concern with some people is because they see the affect in their communities and know first hand what the problems are. Others know how much it is costing them. The reason people say they are just letting them in etc. is because the gov is not doing anything to stop them. They may not be just simply walking through the front door but when you have 12 million (and estimates go up to 20 million) living, working, taking gov. benefits etc then it is obvious that someone is just letting them come, and stay here.

I believe that the immigration problem has been going on for a very long time and both parties are responsible, because both are either kicking the can down the road or playing politics (for whatever reason) or both.

Personally I don't have a problem with immigration when done legally. I am tired of people calling others racist because someone has a different idea about how immigration should be handled.

Just as you (and others) are frustrated that it is such a huge concern with people, those people are just as frustrated that others don't see why it is such a concern to them. (And again it has nothing to do with the race of people).

There are many issues that should be dealt with in America today and that is why I wish our politicians would do just that. There are very few that seem to working for the people instead of themselves, their reelection etc.

I think that racism is always wrong and it makes me sad to think that it is increasing. I am not sure it is fair to blame one person, I think there are many factors that should be addressed.

Back to the border: The US simply cannot have people rushing the border to push through. If not tear gas to stop what would you suggest. Politicians on both sides as well as the media need to just stop with the rhetoric and pass some common sense/fair legislation that would stop this once and for all. Do any of us really think they are incapable of doing that?

Sorry for the ramble Tweety, not all aimed at you personally.

Go ahead and ramble. I rather like it.

There is no reason to point out "the hypocrisy". Especially when it's inaccurate and liberals did hold Obama accountable and objected to things. While children may have been separated under is watch there is no way no how he did it to the extent that Trump did and it was ignored. Bringing up Syria when we are talking about Trump and immigration isn't appropriate and is a deflection that adds nothing, especially when people widely condemned his drone attacks.

By "the government doing nothing about it", I suppose you mean Trump because he's been in power two years.

About my city and neighborhood, I must live in a bubble because I see no issue or problems with illegal immigrants causing any issues. On the contrary it's us ourselves causing issues. Drunk drivers killing people, a man just killed his infant child, gun violence and drugs, car thefts. If there is a problem now and then that an illegal immigrant causes it's greatly overshadowed by my other concerns. If other cities have worse problems I'm can understand them being upset. But seriously why are people in Iowa so up in arms? Border towns probably moreso. I get that.

Those 12 million people aren't just takers and causing problems...did you read the article above I posted about their contribution and their necessity. Perhaps that's why the government turns a blind eye...fat cats making money off of them paying lobbyist and into campaigns might have an effect on policy that's been largely ineffective.

I'm not sure what the answer is and I don't approve of illegal immigrants and don't want an open door policy. That doesn't make me a racist. But just like people in the past objected to the Chinese "yellow peril" immigrants in days past, I'm sure some underlying racism applies here for some people's objections. That's my opinion of course.

Edited by Tweety

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Yep, nice deflection to Obama while also asking an intellectually dishonest question about my concern. How about this, why don't you go find one of my comments that defended or otherwise gave a pass to those drone strikes that you mention? Instead of implying crap, rather than discussing Trump's cruel and bigoted policy, why not actually provide proof?

[...]

Let's take any action, or lack of action, of the previous administration out of the discussion. If a group of individuals ignored law enforcement officials in Mexico, and rushed our border throwing rocks and other objects at our border patrol officers, what do you think an appropriate response would ve?

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Folks are acting as if we have not choice but to but to use tear gas at our border. But we have known about this group approaching for weeks. We could have had buses and agents ready to process people in an orderly and human way. Trump closed the border and gassed them." George Takei

Well, at that moment maybe there was no other choice. Instead of blaming the Trump admin why not blame the group that financed the caravan to get them there, they basically just took money (from the migrants or whoever) and left them stranded there without basic needs.

Nobody wants these people hurt and that is why we need to stop this or people will just keep coming (like they have been for over 15 years in these caravans) and it is obvious they are getting more and more bold in their actions.

The majority of these people are not coming for asylum, therefore that means they are trying to come illegally. Do "we" (or should we) make a habit of assisting people to break the law, or should we encourage legal entry.

And why are people blaming the border control for "gassing" people when it was the individuals choice to come to the border in the first place, and then again made the (bad) choice to storm the border.

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Let's take any action, or lack of action, of the previous administration out of the discussion. If a group of individuals ignored law enforcement officials in Mexico, and rushed our border throwing rocks and other objects at our border patrol officers, what do you think an appropriate response would ve?

Calm

Orderly processing of the claims and requests for asylum.

Dispatch of resources to care for the needs of those at the border with an intention of relieving suffering and treating the migrants with humanity and dignity.

Follow international laws.

Our paramilitary border guards are not seriously threatened by rocks and other street debris.

Why is this administration so alarmed by migrant caravans? Is the fear a reflection of Trump's personal cowardice, or had it been manufactured in the propaganda bubble in order to manipulate the fearful to achieve an unspoken political agenda?

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I think that's the point. If there were some calm and orderly process arranged in the weeks we knew they were coming perhaps there wouldn't have been them "storming the border". We knew they were coming.

But that's not as dramatic as instilling anger and fear by sending lots of troops and gassing and saying "wow look at Trump...he's so tough on illegal immigration!"

But yes, if at this point they are attacking our border guards there obviously must be a response.

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"Folks are acting as if we have no choice but to use tear gas at our border. But we have known about this group approaching for weeks. We could have had buses and agents ready to process people in an orderly and human way. Trump closed the border and gassed them." George Takei

This doesn't mean we have to take any of them or or all of them. Mexico deported 500 of them and we need to continue to look for Mexico's cooperation here.

Quite a few folks, including some here, were saying this caravan wasn't any different then others. All the hoopla about it was just a political stunt for election season. It was often said We should just treat them as we normally do.

Heck, they weren't even supposed to be here for a few more months.

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Calm orderly processing of the claims and requests for asylum.

[...]

I have no problem with that. However, this should be based upon a calm, orderly presentation to one of the ports of entry. As the process is supposed to work. And while illegal entry into the country has no bearing on the application process, a mad rush toward the border is only going to be met with resistance.

[...]

Dispatch of resources to care for the needs of those at the border with an intention of relieving suffering and treating the migrants with humanity and dignity.

[...]

Again, I agree with this, once they have presented to the port of entry, and made their application for asylum. While they remain on the Mexican side of the border, shouldn't the Mexican government have some responsibility in providing care? Especially considering that they allowed entry and passage of the caravan?

[...]

Follow international laws.

[...]

Which international law did we violate?

Our paramilitary border guards are not seriously threatened by rocks and other street debris.

[...]

As they were all reported to have been wearing helmets and body armor, as well as carrying protective shields, I agree that the risk of personal injury was slight. However, it was also a matter of protecting the border. Would you agree that the U.S. has the right to protect their border, and control how immigrants enter?

[...]

Why is this administration so alarmed by migrant caravans? Is the fear a reflection of Trump's personal cowardice, or had it been manufactured in the propaganda bubble in order to manipulate the fearful to achieve an unspoken political agenda?

This is a good question, especially considering that this is not the first caravan to approach the border.

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I think that's the point. If there were some calm and orderly process arranged in the weeks we knew they were coming perhaps there wouldn't have been them "storming the border". We knew they were coming.

But that's not as dramatic as instilling anger and fear by sending lots of troops and gassing and saying "wow look at Trump...he's so tough on illegal immigration!"

But yes, if at this point they are attacking our border guards there obviously must be a response.

I believe that it is obvious that when President Panic needed to plan for the arrival of a migrant caravan at our southern border, that he created a very specific political narrative. That narrative used intentional language like "invasion" to inflame the fears and anxieties of his supporters. His planning was intended to support his political narrative, not to address the immigration/asylum system that was going to be taxed in an acute fashion. This was revealed when the military planning documents revealed that trained assessment found no real violence or security threat.

This flock of people arriving at our border are little different from previous caravans or groups of migrants who have traveled together.

I am confident that the secretary of DHS will support Trump's story on this matter. She has lied to us before and there's rumor that Trump is no longer impressed with her loyalty. This is a great opportunity for her to try to impress him.

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Quite a few folks, including some here, were saying this caravan wasn't any different then others. All the hoopla about it was just a political stunt for election season. It was often said We should just treat them as we normally do.

Heck, they weren't even supposed to be here for a few more months.

Central Americans have long fled their countries but this is different in it's scale. But why wouldn't we treat them as we normally do? In some ways the same, but in others it's not because of sheer numbers. But just because it's larger is it an "invasion" that requires military invention, and does he have the right to refuse to any asylum (so far a judge says he does not). His rhetoric about Muslim terrorists amongst them, and fear mongering and timing right before elections is a bit suspect to me. Color me bitter even if I might be wrong.

Just because it's sheer size does that warrant any different actions like military and tear gas? Was that the best answer?

It's a done deal, but I can't necessary support the idea. We do have a right to "protect our border" and we should.

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