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wish_me_luck wish_me_luck (Member)

Taking mentally ill off streets

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mariebailey
by mariebailey New Member
Mental Illness is not an excuse for murder.

I don't think anyone participating in this thread condones murder, or sees mental illness as a reason not to hold someone accountable for their actions. This really should go without saying. As wish_me_luck stated, it is a misconception that those with mental illness are responsible for a disproportionate amount of violent crime. Thus, targeting this population is discriminatory & foolish, IMO.

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leslie :-D
by leslie :-D
So we let individuals who pose a viable threat against other citizens walk the streets?

this is the precise fear i live daily...

as i am a staunch believer there are many who are mentally ill, but they remain undx'd and so, unknown.

i think most of us agree that mental illness is severely stigmatized...

and its resultant effects inhibit (too) many from seeking the help they want/need.

it's not just the stigma; it is the denials as well, e.g., "i ain't crazy!"

so yeah, point well taken.

lots of crazies out there, whether they are part of a statistic remains to be seen. ;)

leslie

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herring_RN
by herring_RN, ASN, BSN Guide Expert Nurse Verified

Parents of Gunman Feared for Son's Sanity

Parents speak of son's troubled past

 

Parents of a man who shot at San Diego sheriff's deputies spoke today about the difficult mental health issues their son faced.

Evan Kwik, 22, shot two deputies from a crawl space in his mother's attic in Encinitas on Wednesday and ultimately turned the shotgun on himself.

His parents said they are thankful toward officers who responded at the scene.

"I'm so grateful for them," said Shelly Kwik. "I'm so grateful for how they treated me, how they treated our family, how they treated Evan and he didn't understand the depth of what they were trying to do with him." ...

... They said early on he was a great kid, who loved the outdoors and snorkeling in the ocean, but he struggled with school, and by 8th grade he dropped out.

He was then diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and bi-polar disorder. Evan's parents also said things got worse once he turned 18 and was technically an adult, because they had less control over getting him help.

"He's 18 in physical body, but in his mind he was a 12-year-old," said Shelly. "There needs to be laws that say if this person is doing drugs and mentality is 12-year-old, they need to be treated as a 12-year-old. Their rights need to be taken away."

The parents said Evan then started running with the wrong crowd and three years ago, started using black tar heroin. They also said neither of them owned any guns and they have no idea where he got the shotgun he used in Wednesday's shooting.

Both parents urged for a change in the way the health care system treats mentally ill people, because they believe the way it is now doesn't work.

"They have to do some heinous, something atrocious to get that institutional help," said Steve. "And unfortunately when that occurs, that's when people get hurt."

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/encinitas-deputies-evan-kwik-encinitas-192610851.html#ixzz2LksoCeZm

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mariebailey
by mariebailey New Member
“He's 18 in physical body, but in his mind he was a 12-year-old,” said Shelly. “There needs to be laws that say if this person is doing drugs and mentality is 12-year-old, they need to be treated as a 12-year-old. Their rights need to be taken away."

There are plenty of people without a mental illness who act like a 12-year-old. Should there rights be taken away, or just those diagnosed with a mental illness?

I think one solution is Advance Psychiatric Directives. It empowers the person to make decisions regarding their care when they are competent, so they aren't completely robbed of their rights in a crisis. NAMI | Psychiatric Advance Directives: An Overview

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herring_RN
by herring_RN, ASN, BSN Guide Expert Nurse Verified

Parents of Gunman Feared for Son's Sanity

Parents speak of son's troubled past

 

Parents of a man who shot at San Diego sheriff’s deputies spoke today about the difficult mental health issues their son faced.

Evan Kwik, 22, shot two deputies from a crawl space in his mother's attic in Encinitas on Wednesday and ultimately turned the shotgun on himself.

His parents said they are thankful toward officers who responded at the scene.

"I'm so grateful for them,” said Shelly Kwik. “I'm so grateful for how they treated me, how they treated our family, how they treated Evan and he didn't understand the depth of what they were trying to do with him." ...

... They said early on he was a great kid, who loved the outdoors and snorkeling in the ocean, but he struggled with school, and by 8th grade he dropped out.

He was then diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and bi-polar disorder. Evan’s parents also said things got worse once he turned 18 and was technically an adult, because they had less control over getting him help.

“He's 18 in physical body, but in his mind he was a 12-year-old,” said Shelly. “There needs to be laws that say if this person is doing drugs and mentality is 12-year-old, they need to be treated as a 12-year-old. Their rights need to be taken away."

The parents said Evan then started running with the wrong crowd and three years ago, started using black tar heroin. They also said neither of them owned any guns and they have no idea where he got the shotgun he used in Wednesday's shooting.

Both parents urged for a change in the way the health care system treats mentally ill people, because they believe the way it is now doesn’t work.

“They have to do some heinous, something atrocious to get that institutional help,” said Steve. “And unfortunately when that occurs, that's when people get hurt.”

Source: Parents of Gunman Feared for Son's Sanity | NBC 7 San Diego

I saw the parents on TV. They couldn't get treatment for their son. Dispite both parents pleading that they knew he was very sick they couldn't get him help.

Now he is dead after shooting two people.

i once called 911 because a man was having an MI. All the usual symptoms, diaphoretic, chest pressure, SOB, gray color. He told paramedics he was OK and wanted to keep working. Within 1/2 hour he was in the cath lab.

I saw him a year later. He is still angry with me because he missed work. The doctor told him his "widowmaker" was 99% blocked.

If the paramedics can take a man to the ER against his will to save his life wht can't health professionals lister to the parents and truly assess the man before he hurts strangers and kills himself?

Every situation is different. Why must jails and prisons provide more mental health care than hospitals and clinics?

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wish_me_luck
by wish_me_luck

kalev, look, I understand where you are coming from; but I know that my former psychiatrist described my prognosis as "guarded". That makes me sound like I am a terrible person that you stay away from. I didn't do anything to anyone....I am treated (the prognosis was given even after I was in treatment) and compliant with treatment. The fact is sometimes, people make things sound worse than they really are.

I guess what I am getting at is that I don't want people clumping all people with mental illness into the "severe" category...I would say that probably 85% or so of the people with mental illness are "mild". I know the gun rights thing goes for all mental illness, not just the "severe" people. And if we are talking about taking this right or that right away, they tend to take it away from all mentally ill, not just certain ones. That is more of what my fear is.

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mariebailey
by mariebailey New Member

Every situation is different. Why must jails and prisons provide more mental health care than hospitals and clinics?

I totally agree on this point. Inpatient & outpatient Tx is a much better solution than homelessness & jail. PBS

the mentally ill often rotate back and forth between being homeless and being in jails or prisons. …
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/special/excerpt.html

T

he article above discusses deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill from the mid-60s to the 80s in the U.S..

This reminds me of the discussion on drones targeting U.S. citizens. I can understand court-ordered Tx if they are currently homicidal or suicidal, & the threat is imminent. I don't think someone should be hunted down in the streets for non-compliance alone or for a vague suspicion they could pose threat in the future.

I really think the answer is to empower people to actively participate in their treatment plan during periods of stability. More inpatient facilities offering more long term Tx options would be a plus as well. We would be taking steps back if we started stripping this population of their rights.

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wish_me_luck
by wish_me_luck

Currently homicidal, suicidal, or imminent threat are the key words....that's fine; but from the article, it makes it sound like they are just going to round these people up for refusing medication or talking to themselves or whatever. I would be curious about what behaviors these people exibited to make them seem more dangerous than any other person. Them not taking medication doesn't cut it, in my opinion.

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azhiker96
by azhiker96 New Member
Currently homicidal, suicidal, or imminent threat are the key words....that's fine; but from the article, it makes it sound like they are just going to round these people up for refusing medication or talking to themselves or whatever. I would be curious about what behaviors these people exibited to make them seem more dangerous than any other person. Them not taking medication doesn't cut it, in my opinion.

The article talked about finding people who are not taking their court ordered treatment. It takes a lot for a court to order treatment. Simply making threats does not meet the criteria. They must have the ability to carry out the threat. If I say I'm going to shoot someone but I don't own a gun or have plans to get a gun then a court can't order treatment. Or if they have already committed violent actions against themselves or others a court might order treatment.

25 people out of the millions of New York is not a large number. I did a clinical in community health and we gave court ordered monthly haldol injections to a number of clients. If they failed to come in there was a team that would check their usual haunts in case they'd forgotten. After some amount of time they'd have to tell the police so they could pick them up and bring them by the clinic for their shot. It was pretty much a catch and release program with the injection being the key to being released.

People who have not been ordered by a court to take their meds can be as non-compliant as they please.

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herring_RN
by herring_RN, ASN, BSN Guide Expert Nurse Verified

I did VNA work taking TB meds to unreliable people.

I've met jail nurses who have patients in county jails to be given their meds.

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wish_me_luck
by wish_me_luck

I don't know if it is that hard to get a court order for treatment...I had a suicide attempt; was mandated for the 72 hour hold; then, when I had my hearing, the psychiatrist wanted me to stay--not because I was a danger, but because she couldn't figure out what was going on with me and wanted me to stay to try and figure it out. I told her I couldn't because I had to go back to school otherwise, I would fail my classes...the decision was that I could be released; however, I was court ordered for outpatient treatment for a certain period of time.

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VivaLasViejas
by VivaLasViejas Guide Writer

For what it's worth, I loathe the term "crazies" to describe people with mental illness. It's a loaded word that serves only to divide them---us---from the rest of society and turn us into creatures to be feared and discriminated against. As I once said to my primary care physician, I'm not crazy---I'm just bipolar! So are many other people who work and raise families and succeed at life.......we may have to work a little harder at it, but we can accomplish every bit as much (and sometimes more!) as anyone else.

Frankly, I'm tickled pink that this discussion is taking place, both here and out in the larger world (although I've found AN members to be much more compassionate than the average member of society). I'm in total agreement with what another member said a few posts back; I want to be someone who turns the stereotype on its ear, shows the world what mentally ill people can do, and triumphs in spite (or maybe because) of it. :yes:

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