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"When they go low, we kick them"

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You are reading page 4 of "When they go low, we kick them". If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

Yes, you have to show your ID when you vote. Everyone has at least one ID card (whether it's a passport, driver's license or one issued by a bank or by an employer). You can't really function in society without one and you couldn't travel abroad. In the unlikely event you've lost your ID card right before election date, another person with a valid ID card can vouch for your identity at the polls.

Apart from an ID card you also bring your voter registration card to the polling station. It's automatically mailed to you about a month prior to the election (you don't have to do anything for this to happen). And it always works. Always. We have quite an efficient bureaucracy going...

Citizens can vote in all four elections; one national, two local and the EU election. An EU citizen residing here is eligible to vote (from the first day of residence) in the EU election and the two local elections but not the national (parliament) election. A non-EU citizen living here is allowed to vote in the two local elections after they've resided here for three years.

Oh, and it's one person = one vote. They are all worth EXACTLY the same.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that urinating on busts is a winning strategy. If you read my posts that wasn't at all what I was referring to when I said that always taking the high road when the other side rides roughshod over you, is a losing strategy.

The passive doormat reaction I'm seeing from many politicians opposed to Trump is not going to win them elections. You literally have a situation where a minority are PERMITTED to walk all over the majority.

Thanks to your system of electoral votes you have a President who has the support of less than half of the people who voted.

California with a population of 39,536,653 get two Senators, as does Wyoming with a population of 579,315.

List of states and territories of the United States by population - Wikipedia

(One Congressman from California represents 702,885 residents and one from Wyoming 563,767).

When Judge Kavanuagh was confirmed, that Senators who voted "aye" represented FAR LESS than half the population. I think I saw somewhere that the numbers are roughly 140 million (aye) vs 180 million (nay). You have a court that's far more conservative than the average American. Does it really represent you?

Why doesn't this strike y'all as unjust?

If this was my country, I wouldn't be happy.

Not only is the playing field uneven from the get-go where rural sparsely populated states are granted disproportionate power, but it's further skewed by the fact that some states appear to allow the disgusting practice of systematically suppressing black and other minority votes.

Back to bust desecration.... I don't think that Eric Holder had peeing on busts in mind either...

He clearly said when I say we kick them, --> I don't mean we do anything inappropriate, we don't do anything illegal.

Regarding this thread. A person is being 100% disingenuous if they try to make it sound like he was advocating violence. I have nothing but contempt for this Trumpster stategy of trying to misrepresent (mening LIE about) reality.

Personally I find the memes asinine. I swear, the mere act of seeing them, probably kills off a non-neglible amount of brain cells....

However... I'm convinced they helped Trump win the 2016 election. Trump supporters seem to respond well to them. We certainly didn't see any of our regular Trump supporting posters here condemn for example the ridiculous and distasteful memes depicting Hillary Clinton with fake syphilitic lesions, that were posted here by other Trump aficionados during the 2016 campaign.

The other side plays dirty.

So do you go the snob route and refuse to use them and leave them to the less scrupulous Trump folks... or...

I'm on the fence.

I am not a snob, but I won't curse and call names.

I will counter lies with truth.

I will listen to people who disagree with me IF they are willing to have a civil conversation. Sometimes a person changes their own mind when questioned about their ridiculous belief in falsehoods.

 

I worked nights in 2005 when WE were on call to any public appearance by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger after he tried to eliminate our ratio law was passed and signed into law by his predecessor. Sometimes I got up, put on scrubs, protested, and came home to go back to sleep.

 

We followed him shouting "SHAME ON YOU, ARNOLD!" until he went inside.

At first we were just a handful.

Then police, highway patrol (CHIPS), firefighters, and sheriffs joined us after he went after compensation for the children of public servants killed on duty.

Then he tried to increase class size, lay off school personnel, and cut their pensions.

 

Once we were having a CE class when our phones vibrated. Arnold was going to speak at an event. Almost the entire class went there at lunchtime just before he got there so we shouted, "Shame of You" while some explained our opinions to the press. One Korean American RN spoke about safe staffing to a Korean language newspaper.

 

We had been told Arnold was too popular. That we were fools to challenge him. But OUR safe staffing law was to important to let that ONE IGNORANT SHOWMAN illegally eliminate the law with an executive order.

We were plenty angry, but did not curse, threaten violence, or lie.

What we did was save our ratios and help teachers, school employees, firefighters, an law enforcement officers.

 

NURSES were brave and committed enough and set an example so others joined us.

Schwarzenegger Abandons Court Fight Against Nurses

He called us SPECIAL INTERESTS

Edited by herring_RN

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I am not a snob, but I won't curse and call names.

I will counter lies with truth.

I will listen to people who disagree with me IF they are willing to have a civil conversation. Sometimes a person changes their own mind when questioned about their ridiculous belief in falsehoods.

 

I worked nights in 2005 when WE were on call to any public appearance by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger after he tried to eliminate our ratio law was passed and signed into law by his predecessor. Sometimes I got up, put on scrubs, protested, and came home to go back to sleep.

 

We followed him shouting "SHAME ON YOU, ARNOLD!" until he went inside.

At first we were just a handful.

Then police, highway patrol (CHIPS), firefighters, and sheriffs joined us after he went after compensation for the children of public servants killed on duty.

Then he tried to increase class size, lay off school personnel, and cut their pensions.

 

Once we were having a CE class when our phones vibrated. Arnold was going to speak at an event. Almost the entire class went there at lunchtime just before he got there so we shouted, "Shame of You" while some explained our opinions to the press. One Korean American RN spoke about safe staffing to a Korean language newspaper.

 

We had been told Arnold was too popular. That we were fools to challenge him. But OUR safe staffing law was to important to let that ONE IGNORANT SHOWMAN illegally eliminate the law with an executive order.

We were plenty angry, but did not curse, threaten violence, or lie.

What we did was save our ratios and help teachers, school employees, firefighters, an law enforcement officers.

 

NURSES were brave and committed enough and set an example so others joined us.

He called us SPECIAL INTERESTS

Yes, the nurses were brave, herring.

But Arnold also wasn't calling nurses displaying nicknames, was he?

It is much easier to be civil, when you are dealing with civil.

Unfortunately, those days are long gone.

Just this week, Trump joked about the physical assault of a journalist in Montana, by a Montana politician.

The journalist was from the BBC.

Maybe you remember the incident.

Is that something the occupant of the WH should joke about, or encourage others to joke about?

Trump is completely uncivilized, and his supporters love him for it.

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The current resident of the White House has called for violence multiple times. And the main reaction from his supporters is ho hum. But let a democrat who just happens to be a person of color hint that progressives should stop being so passive, well, OMG, get the rope!

FACT CHECK: Did Donald Trump Encourage Violence at His Rallies?

I won't encourage, participate, or stand by and allow violence without trying to stop it OR calling 911 BUT after calling others an angry mob and an elected Republican said that Democrats are being violent in the run-up to the elections.

"Greg is smart, and by the way, never wrestle him," Trump said, to laughter from the crowd. "Any guy that can do a body slam, he's my kind of," he added. The president then mimicked a wrestling move, said, "He's my guy," and applauded in Gianforte's direction as his audience cheered.

 

Trump went on to describe how, while in Rome for a state visit, he "heard that [Gianforte] body slammed a reporter" -- as he said this, Trump pointed at the journalists covering his speech, while the crowd roared. The president explained that his immediate reaction to the report that a U.S. politician had assaulted a member of the press was "this is terrible, he's going to lose the election," before concluding that in Montana, "it might help him, and it did."

 

The president had hinted that he supported Gianforte's attack on a journalist at a rally in September. But these latest remarks cross a new threshold in the president's rhetoric against the press, with Trump explicitly encouraging violence against journalists...

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So are we going to pretend again that Russia didn't engage in a massive misinformation campaign to drive angry Americans to the polls to vote for Trump?

Yes, that is exactly what a significant portion of the population, including some posters here, are going to keep on pretending.

Thanks to your system of electoral votes you have a President who has the support of less than half of the people who voted.

You do realize Clinton only got 48% herself, don't you?

Yes, I do realize. This is a perfect example of what I dislike about your style of argument. You know exactly what I meant but you still feel the need to make a silly point. I'll rephrase eventhough you understood my point just fine the first time. Thanks to your system of electoral votes you now have a President who got fewer votes than his main opponent. Better?

Take away California's vote, and Trump won the popular vote.

I don't understand the point of this exercise. What do you prove by pretending that your most populous state with almost 40 million residents shouldn't factor into the equation? Are they planning on seceding? (Okay, that last part was snark). But really, I don't understand your argument.

For people still clinging to that quaint notion of kindness and civility: Wake Up.

As the article Tweety posted, and macawake referred to, we are dealing with an entity that sees kindness and civility as a weakness.

That is how Trump's deplorable behavior has been allowed to escalate, unabated.

I still cling to the quaint notion of kindness and civility and I'm pretty convinced that you do too, in other arenas than the current political situation. But I think your point here is, and I agree, that kindness and civility is sadly inadequate when you face forces that will only take advantage of kindness and who have nothing but disdain for people who attempt to play by the rules.

These are abnormal times. In my opinion they call for a different set of rules. Passively accepting that the goalposts of what's considered acceptable behavior, are constantly moved, is in a way condoning the "new normal".

Democrats and Republicans who oppose what's happening to your country need to get angry. I don't mean violence. I mean you need to get louder. You need to make your opinions and your values heard.

As I watch and read your news, I worry that the Democrats will lose in November. To me it's almost a given that the Republicans will keep the Senate but I'm also not confident that the Democrats will get a majority in the House. I think that would be catastrophic for your country, since the current Congress have pretty much abandoned their responsibility to act as a check on your President. They're a bunch of enablers. I hope I'll be proven wrong and that Democrats get at least a decent majority in the House.

What I see in the media, left, right and center, is that The Party of Trump gets all the oxygen. I don't see a clear message from the Democrats. I don't see enough passion from them. I don't see them shining a big, bright light on all the lies and amorality that's on display on an almost daily basis. I don't see them calling out those who make a mockery of your proud tradition of once being a land of hope and a land that stands up for and defends democratic values.

They are lukewarm, milk-toast, passive, and they are being completely steamrolled by the other side. The Republicans, as depraved as their current political agenda is, are much better at playing the game.

When President or a member of his administration does something negative and worthy of criticism, they get praised in the right-wing media. From the left we see a little tut-tutting and handwringing, but that's about it.

When someone on the Democratic side does or says something negative, the right-wing media goes absolutely bananas and their talk show hosts will augment, embellish and outright lie about the facts, milking it for every ounce of Trump base energizing that's humanly possible. And the left falls over themselves criticizing their own, in order to prove how fair-minded and rule-following they are.

Good luck with that.

The structure of the Senate was a compromise between the bigger states and the smaller states. As you know, the House is representation based on population. The Senate gave smaller states equal representation to the bigger states in one Chamber of Congress. Some believed, correctly in my opinion, that if all representation was based on population that smaller states would often have their interests ignored without much recourse.

So the answer is to award people who choose to live in less populous states, disproportionate power?

How is it more fair that the minority get to rule the majority, rather than each person's vote having the exact same worth? What you have today is a system where a minority are allowed to IMPOSE their will on the majority.

Case in point...

Nomination & Confirmation Process - Supreme Court Nominations Research Guide - Guides at Georgetown Law Library

Appointment and confirmation to the Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia

You have two chambers in Congress. One based on population and one which overwhelmingly favors sparsely populated states.

Then you allow one of the most long-term consequential decisons for all citizens and residents of your country to be made by the chamber that has the extremely disproportionate representation.

I've tried to figure out if the House of Representatives are engaged in any stage of the process of choosing and confirming Supreme Court Justices. As far as I can tell, it's entirely a President + Senate affair. Am I wrong?

Supreme Court decisions have profound impact on people's lives. Why do you think minority rule is fair?

I mentioned in another thread that I think that many of Trump's followers have authoritarian traits. I stand by that assessment. Authoritarians are, among other things, characterized by the fact that they think it's acceptable to force their values on others. It's not enough to have those values for oneself, but others should be forced to live by their values. This is entirely consistent with being onboard with the idea that a minority should be able to decide how the majority should be allowed to live their lives.

A resident/voter in Wyoming has approximately 68 times more power when it comes to affecting the confirmation of Supreme Court justices, than a resident of California does. A voter in South Dakota has a voice that's roughly TWENTY-THREE times as powerful as a voter in New York.

Because you allow disproportionate power to sparsely populated states, you have a Supreme Court that's ideologically out of sync with "you the people".

I am not a snob, but I won't curse and call names.

I will counter lies with truth.

I used the word snob deliberately. I was being a bit provocative on purpose. But the word wasn't aimed at any particular poster. It was aimed at myself as much as anything.

If I'm honest with myself, for me personally it is a form of snobbery to refuse to stoop to the "deplorables'" level. That way I know I'm better than them and get to feel a bit good about myself.

I actually think Hillary was correct. Some of Trump's supporters actually are deplorable. They deserve the moniker.

People who cry that poor Justice Kavanuagh was treated unfairly because people are "innocent until proven guilty" (the criminal court of law standard), but CHEER and chant "lock her up" about Clinton and even Senator Feinstein (!), are deplorable.

People who cheer and LAUGH when a victim of attempted sexual assault is being mocked and ridiculed on a public stage in front of thousands spectators and millions of TV viewers, are deplorable.

People who fail to condemn cruel policies that separates young children from their parents and lock them up AS A deterrent, are truly deplorable.

People who cheers a President who praises a member of Congress who has committed the crime of assault against a member of the media, are deplorable.

I could go on all day long... It's a long list of reprehensible behavior. They should be called out on it.

I will listen to people who disagree with me IF they are willing to have a civil conversation. Sometimes a person changes their own mind when questioned about their ridiculous belief in falsehoods.

I agree with you. Dialogue is a good thing and I will have it with anyone who's civil. However, I don't have much hope that the most fervent and zealous Trump supporters are going to change their minds based on reason, logic or humanitarian values.

They will in my opinion only abandon their support for him if his policies start affecting their own lives too negatively. I'm waiting for the moment when reality finally dawns on them, and they finally see that his administration's policies will not benefit low and middle income citizens in the long run. Wait until they realize that the coal jobs aren't coming back and that tariffs will hurt them where they feel it. Wait until they wake up to the fact that "preexisting conditions" will make it impossible for them to afford healthcare.

Let's just hope that this administration doesn't manage to completely wreck your country, before the deplorables experience their epiphany.

Am I being deliberately provocative?

You bet.

(I know that many of the posters here actually do all that's in their power to affect change. My criticism is levelled at the "aggragate" or stereotypical Democratic politician and how much of the media reports about this administration).

One final thought. I made a point of answering OP's question by saying early on in this thread that yes, that's exactly how I would want to be perceived if I was an American.

I think this thread is a part of the campaign we saw in right-wing media and heard from the Administration, that those who voice dissent against Trump, are part of a violence-prone mob. This of course, is utter rubbish.

But I think it has a dual purpose. I think this narrative that the left are prone to violence and the attempt to twist Holder's words, are also squarely aimed at and tries to capitalize on, the Democrat's talent for self-censorship and self-recrimination.

If the people who oppose Trump are busy lecturing each other on etiquette and decent behavior or perhaps just spending a lot of energy talking about it, they won't have enough time to do what really matters. And that is to come up with a forceful and persuasive argument about why it's vital that people go out and vote in November.

Divide and conquer.

Age-old strategy.

Edited by macawake
One final thought to add :)

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macawake; wow, just... Wow.:yes::wavey::yes:

A big thumbs up!!!

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Apparently Republicans nationwide are embracing their White Nationalist supporters.

Aside from the incident in FL that I posted earlier, a week or so ago, in NY, the Metropolitan Republican Club presented Gavin McInnes, founder of the Proud Boys, as a guest speaker.

Wow.

Republicans are no longer hiding their blatant racism.

It is front and center for all to see.

Yep.

Deplorables.

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I did the AIDS Walk this morning with my Star Trek club. My member of Congress, Ted Lieu was there too. Lots of actors I recognize from TV walked. Lots of teens as walkers and volunteers. The three of us raised $511.00. Total was more than $82 million. Medications cost about $2,000.00 a month. For many insurance pays. They do a lot to help those who can't afford their meds, and lots of other help too.

Representative "Auntie" Maxine Waters was there straight from church.

Welcome to APLA Health

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I did the AIDS Walk this morning with my Star Trek club. My member of Congress, Ted Lieu was there too. Lots of actors I recognize from TV walked. Lots of teens as walkers and volunteers. The three of us raised $511.00. Total was more than $82 million. Medications cost about $2,000.00 a month. For many insurance pays. They do a lot to help those who can't afford their meds, and lots of other help too.

Representative "Auntie" Maxine Waters was there straight from church.

Welcome to APLA Health

Good for you, herring.

I did the AIDS walk when I lived in Boston.

Loved it!

It was one of my favorite charity events.

Walked one year with a complete stranger. Her brother had died recently of AIDS.

She was walking in his name, and didn't think she could do it.

I told her: Yes, you can, and guided, cajoled and talked her through it.

She took me out to dinner after the walk, as a thank you.

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Apparently Republicans nationwide are embracing their White Nationalist supporters.

Aside from the incident in FL that I posted earlier, a week or so ago, in NY, the Metropolitan Republican Club presented Gavin McInnes, founder of the Proud Boys, as a guest speaker.

Wow.

Republicans are no longer hiding their blatant racism.

It is front and center for all to see.

Yep.

Deplorables.

Another well-known, long-time GOP pundit left the party over the overt racism (even wrote a book about the demise of the Republican party as he knew it). Recent interview with him:

Max Boot on the end of conservatism: “The Republican Party needs to be burned down” | Salon.com

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Another well-known, long-time GOP pundit left the party over the overt racism (even wrote a book about the demise of the Republican party as he knew it). Recent interview with him:

Max Boot on the end of conservatism: "The Republican Party needs to be burned down" | Salon.com

Reminds me of the story a woman at the barn told me about her recently deceased father.

He was a lifelong Republican, who couldn't stand the recent changes in the party.

Of Trump he said: "He's crazy."

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To those with Netflix, I recommend a documentary on a long-time Republican operative and friend of Trump, "Get Me Roger Stone." It details his history of dirty, win-at-all cost tactics.

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