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Questioning Elizabeth Warren

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29 minutes ago, Tweety said:

I 100% agree that she should be scrutinized.  I'm not saying she shouldn't.  She has, and my issue isn't that she's being scrutinized.  My comparison with the email controversy is that people just don't want to let it go and move on past it.  But I can't decide what people get bend out of shape about and what they move on past.  

Let's agree to disagree. She has ideas with no real way of paying for them unless she plans on increasing the tax.

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3 minutes ago, luv2 said:

Let's agree to disagree. She has ideas with no real way of paying for them unless she plans on increasing the tax.

I'm not sure what we're disagreeing on.  I agreed she should be scrutinized and I've already said she hasn't proposed a plan for paying for her grand ideas.  

Is it that I've moved pasted the Native American controversy and you haven't? 

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53 minutes ago, Tweety said:

I had a cousin based on the family lore used what we presumed to be our native American heritage to fund his college education.  But didn't have proper documentation and didn't bother.  To me nothing wrong with "working the system for personal gain" if you really think that's your heritage based on what you grew up hearing and you think is true, if the system is there for you to take advantage of.  

I get both sides of the issue, but can't really use that as a disqualified for her.  

Although I would have more respect for her, that if like myself, if it was proven to be untrue she would simply say "I made a mistake and I'm wrong".

I am agreeing to disagree based on her personal gain on the system.

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46 minutes ago, luv2 said:

I am agreeing to disagree based on her personal gain on the system.

Fair enough.  People do think she lied about her heritage for personal gain, rather than something she mistakenly thought was true.  If she mistakenly thought it was true, I'm giving her a pass because it does happen and she apologized.   If she lied and faked her way to gain that's another thing.

 

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3 hours ago, luv2 said:

This has nothing to do with President Donald Trump and his corrupt administration or any other candidate running for President. This is all Senator Elizabeth Warran. She told a lie the has offended minorities especially Native Americans. There is more to her claiming to be  Native American she contributed to a Native American cookbook and took the recipes from another chef.  She used her "Native American" history to gain the system. 

 

Yeah. That's the spin being promoted.

Yeah, this election is about contrasting candidates, like Warren, against the very offensive and corrupt Liar in Chief. Any gaming of the system being promoted in anti-Warren "reporting" pales in comparison to the illegal gaming of the system demonstrated by Trump on a daily basis. Compared to Trump, Warren is a breath of fresh air. 

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I lived my first 12 years in Oklahoma. Then went back to visit relatives for at least a couple weeks every summer. As a kid in public school, active in our church, and attending many social activities i remember MANY people who appeared to be White or Black proudly claiming Native heritage, usually Cherokee. Even many of the students who came to the High School by bus did not look like those who clearly looked Native. (There was a K thru 8 school on the reservation)

I have spent MANY hours on porches listening the the oral history of the "Five Civilized Tribes" who died and survived the Trail of Tears. I feel so blessed to hear that history told as though those women had been there in the 1830s, when it was the 1950s and 60s. They would say, "Here we didn't know the plants and animals. We had to learn what plant was good for inflammation, and which made a good tea to treat fever or nausea."

My uncle took us the the reservation where my aunt's mother was born. He was in the pest control business and killed termites and such while we attended Bible Camp on the reservation with local kids. A few became lifelong friends. One who made me earrings and tried to kiss me when we were 14 moved to town, became a dialysis RN and married a fellow nurse and best friend of my cousin. I last saw him in 2002 when he was the DJ for my aunt and uncle's 60th anniversary party in the church hall. He had been a skinny kid, and then was a fat man. My Aunt's mother lived to attend her daughter's 60th wedding Mass and party!

My uncle became a Tribal member. He participated in religious ceremonies and danced with the men at the summer Pow Wows. The government measures percent of "native blood". To my knowledge the Tribe did not.

My beloved uncle's mother, my amazing grandmother never knew her parents. She told me the story of her heritage as told to her my people who had lived in that Southern Texas farming community all their lives. They told her her father was killed by a runaway horse while her mother was pregnant with her. They told her her mother died when she was two days old and that her mother was a "Spanish Indian". Grandma thought her Mom was either Native or Mexican. My Grandma was raised by the daughter of German immigrants and the son of other Germans. They cared for her the best they could along with the nieces and a nephew. 

Grandma only kept up with one "sister" (there was no legal adoption). Her "parents" were ignorant enough to hate and fear Catholics, Jews, and all non White people, like my Grandma, whose mother was reportedly Catholic. I have no way to truly know her heritage or one fourth of mine. 

My cousins whose father was my Grandma's son were legally 25% Cherokee. The oldest had been adopted so also qualified as Cherokee. He attended the University of Oklahoma on an ROTC scholarship. Four of his sister and brothers attended OU with housing and tuition assistance as Cherokee. They do not appear Native as their Mother and Grandmother did.

I took a vacation and went to care for my Aunt in hospice in 2010. She took the pictures out of the scrapbook, putting them into 12 envelopes. One for each of her MIL, my Grandma's grand kids.  We talked most of every day. It was wonderful.  As a child I almost never got to be with just her because there were so many kids. A highlight of my life was one day when I was four handing her clothespins in the wind to dry clothes and singing "So Long It's Been Good To Know Ya". Later she told me about living through the Great Dust Storm of April 14, 1935 when she was a teen.

It is my 75th birthday today. I don't know lots of people in Oklahoma as I once did. I can say that I clearly remember MANY MANY people claiming to be part Cherokee because their parents and grandparents told them they were. 

Quote

Q: Is Sen. Elizabeth Warren part Native American? Is that how she got jobs as a professor at Ivy League law schools?

A: Warren has released a report of a DNA test that claims to “strongly support” her statement that she has Native American ancestry, and no one has proved that she was ever hired because of her racial background.

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/12/elizabeth-warrens-pocahontas-controversy/ 

 

 

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On 9/22/2019 at 9:01 AM, luv2 said:

You are probably right. However, I was always taught never try to gain the system work hard and do the right thing. Some people need help.  Contribute if you are able. My family has a motto as long God gives me health I can always build my wealth. It does not matter where you go to school, and it matters what you do with the degree. She gained the system, in my opinion, and took the short cut. 

Of the reported instances where she 'self-reported' Native American ancestry to an employer, all were after she had already been hired, so I'm not sure where you're getting that she took advantage of the system, much less that she was aware at the time that her family had overstated it's ancestry claims.

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2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Yeah. That's the spin being promoted.

Yeah, this election is about contrasting candidates, like Warren, against the very offensive and corrupt Liar in Chief. Any gaming of the system being promoted in anti-Warren "reporting" pales in comparison to the illegal gaming of the system demonstrated by Trump on a daily basis. Compared to Trump, Warren is a breath of fresh air. 

Goofy would be a better candidate.  Still we should be able to talk about the individual Democrats without having to bring Trump into it.

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2 hours ago, Tweety said:

Goofy would be a better candidate.  Still we should be able to talk about the individual Democrats without having to bring Trump into it.

Nah. It's necessary to speak of each one with the reminder that if we find them too imperfect we will be saddled with another Trump term. That fact is every bit as important as any discussion of the specifics of the candidate's plans or ideas. 

Why is Warren's native ancestry language a topic of discussion? Because the most unqualified, dishonest and corrupt president of a lifetime wants it to be discussed, not because there is any value in the discussionfor the people or the country. 

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11 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Why is Warren's native ancestry language a topic of discussion? Because the most unqualified, dishonest and corrupt president of a lifetime wants it to be discussed, not because there is any value in the discussionfor the people or the country. 

I believe the original poster when they stated that Trump didn't motivate them to post this topic.  I don't believe they are a Trump supporter.

For some people, including the Democrats running against her,  it's about talking about her past integrity and honesty.  For me it's a non-issue at this point, but one I did think about.

But I do agree that Trump would like to keep this issue on the table.

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23 hours ago, MunoRN said:

Of the reported instances where she 'self-reported' Native American ancestry to an employer, all were after she had already been hired, so I'm not sure where you're getting that she took advantage of the system, much less that she was aware at the time that her family had overstated it's ancestry claims.

Doing research she contributed to a Native American cookbook. However, her contributions were plagiarized. 

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