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Presidential Election 2020

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22 hours ago, SC_RNDude said:

The only proof you have posted of those things happening is a quote from a congressman saying that the conditions are the worst they have been.  Well, I don’t doubt that.  

However, that doesn’t mean that they are being treated “inhumanly by Trump”, or that they are being “tortured” or in “concentration camps”.

Or, maybe you have been listening to AOC’s account if what’s going on down there.

I’m sure we would all appreciate if you will kindly stay on topic and not make this personal.

For those who believe that, perhaps they shouldn’t have fought so hard against the military being sent to the border, or the wall, or reforming immigration and asylum law.  Or maybe should have accepted sooner that President Trump was correct in that there was a crisis growing.

What we know about the conditions at these detention centers comes from the Trump administration:

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-07/OIG-19-51-Jul19_.pdf

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-06/OIG-19-47-Jun19.pdf

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2019-05/OIG-19-46-May19.pdf

There is no evidence of a "growing crisis", at least not counting the one the Trump administration has created.  Illegal border crossings are at about 25% of their peak in 2000, and have remained essentially flat for the last decade.

ETA: I just noticed Herring beat me to these links, but maybe if they get posted enough times they'll be some recognition they do actually exist.

Edited by MunoRN

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14 hours ago, SC_RNDude said:

Say what?

“This president just used the backdrop of the Oval Office to manufacture a crisis, stoke fear and divert attention from the turmoil in his administration," Schumer said in the midst of a 35-day government shutdown sparked by a partisan disagreement over funding border barriers.”

“The President has manufactured a humanitarian crisis. It is solely Trump's fault NOT the Democrats," House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) tweeted.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), a leading contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, admonished Trump in a video statement: "Mr. President, we don't need to create artificial crises. We have enough real ones."

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/449214-dems-make-u-turn-on-calling-border-a-manufactured-crisis

Yes.  It was pointed out by me many months ago that the Democrats don’t seem too interested in fixing anything, and will wait for it all to blow up so they can blame Trump for it all.

Many liberals and theirs supporters are happy to see that has come to fruition.

That there is a crisis that demanded military intervention was not true.  Trump invented that to flex some muscle and rattle the cages of Democrats.  It mostly backfired.

I think anyone would agree that thousands of people overcrowding our border is a problem.  

I can't even......

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1 hour ago, Tweety said:

That there is a crisis that demanded military intervention was not true.  Trump invented that to flex some muscle and rattle the cages of Democrats.  It mostly backfired.

I think anyone would agree that thousands of people overcrowding our border is a problem.  

I can't even......

At the time these statements were made, he was asking for money for the wall and other things.  Well after the military had been deployed.

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6 hours ago, MunoRN said:

There is no evidence of a "growing crisis", at least not counting the one the Trump administration has created.  Illegal border crossings are at about 25% of their peak in 2000, and have remained essentially flat for the last decade.

I’ll assume your unsourced fact is true.  But, as we all know, there is much more to the crisis then illegal border crossings.

 

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7 hours ago, MunoRN said:

ETA: I just noticed Herring beat me to these links, but maybe if they get posted enough times they'll be some recognition they do actually exist.

No one is disputing conditions are far less then ideal.  However, inhumane, concentration camp, torture, etc.... no.

This discussion started with a poster claiming these conditions are intentional by Trump.  The report that keeps being referenced obviously does not support that idea.

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Another one, no Shapiro or me, who believes the Democrats are out of touch with most Americans.

“The entertainment executive also suggested Democrats will lose their ability to appeal to moderate or independent voters by embracing far-left policies in the primary. The first Democratic debates saw candidates embrace once-extreme positions including decriminalizing border crossings, unlimited access to abortion, and abolishing private insurance in favor of government-run healthcare.”

https://freebeacon.com/politics/bet-founder-democratic-party-has-moved-too-far-left/

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15 hours ago, SC_RNDude said:

No one is disputing conditions are far less then ideal.  However, inhumane, concentration camp, torture, etc.... no.

This discussion started with a poster claiming these conditions are intentional by Trump.  The report that keeps being referenced obviously does not support that idea.

Yeah. The policy to arrest and detain every person coming to our southern border on misdemeanor immigration charges is an intentional choice with the goal of the detention serving as a deterrent.  Yep, even knowing that the inhumane and dehumanizing conditions are being reported by staff and observers the leadership of the department and the POTUS continue to deny the realities of the circumstances while decidedly NOT providing and resources or guidance to remedy the issues.

In my opinion, that's intentional and is completely unacceptable. It's easy to believe the Liar in Chief when you ignore the details of his policy development and roll out. 

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8 hours ago, SC_RNDude said:

Another one, no Shapiro or me, who believes the Democrats are out of touch with most Americans.

“The entertainment executive also suggested Democrats will lose their ability to appeal to moderate or independent voters by embracing far-left policies in the primary. The first Democratic debates saw candidates embrace once-extreme positions including decriminalizing border crossings, unlimited access to abortion, and abolishing private insurance in favor of government-run healthcare.”

https://freebeacon.com/politics/bet-founder-democratic-party-has-moved-too-far-left/

The question of the day is who will those moderate or independent voters vote for?  If you think Trump, that might be a mistake.  

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-democrats-can-win-2020-without-gop-and-swing-voters-2019-7

Edited by Tweety

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22 hours ago, SC_RNDude said:

I’ll assume your unsourced fact is true.  But, as we all know, there is much more to the crisis then illegal border crossings.

 

Agree.   The "crisis" to me isn't the illegal crossings.  It's the sheer number overwhelming the border wanting to come in legally.  

Edited by Tweety

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22 hours ago, SC_RNDude said:

At the time these statements were made, he was asking for money for the wall and other things.  Well after the military had been deployed.

Not sure what you point is.

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More opinion about those moderates.

Quote

Moderate voters outside Trump's red state heartlands were alienated by his explosive tone on immigration in the midterm elections. The President's strategy could also inflame Democratic base turnout. But his political course was set years ago, meaning that a maximum grass-roots turnout is his best and perhaps only hope of reelection. There is a method in his polarization.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/12/politics/donald-trump-immigration-social-media-conservatives-2020-election/index.html

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19 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Yeah. The policy to arrest and detain every person coming to our southern border on misdemeanor immigration charges is an intentional choice with the goal of the detention serving as a deterrent.  Yep, even knowing that the inhumane and dehumanizing conditions are being reported by staff and observers the leadership of the department and the POTUS continue to deny the realities of the circumstances while decidedly NOT providing and resources or guidance to remedy the issues.

In my opinion, that's intentional and is completely unacceptable. It's easy to believe the Liar in Chief when you ignore the details of his policy development and roll out. 

It seems it wasn’t inhumane when the last president kept “kids in cages”.

“This week, the Democrat House Oversight and Reform Committee tweeted out an announcement of a hearing on "Kids in Cages: Inhumane Treatment on the Border" which included a photograph showing rows of immigrant children lying under tinfoil blankets inside fenced detainment cells.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/49379/trump-trolls-democrats-after-they-post-problematic-james-barrett?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

 

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