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Presidential Election 2020

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5 hours ago, SC_RNDude said:

For example, how does free tuition equate to less income disparity?  

While you may not see it on paper in that income might be the same, it does free up (for some people like doctors a significant amount) disposable income.  People that pay $500 a month in student loans for example might use that money for a new car instead of putting that spending off.  They may put it in local businesses.  They have $500 more extra dollars.   It stimulates the economy.  

Income disparity however is so vast between the rich and middle class, there really aren't any liberal ideas that are going to stop that from happening.  Even liberal politicians are loath to mess with the rich and powerful.  Income disparity grew wildly during the Obama years.  

I think we have good programs for the poor.  There are a variety of programs that help them get an education, food and healthcare.  It's the middle class people living paycheck to paycheck that have a heavy tax burden, that can't afford to send their kids to school and they take out huge loans, that pay high insurance premiums for crappy insurance with high co-pays that for profit healthcare organizations go after.  I have a coworker whose daughter had to go to court for not paying her medical bills timely enough.  

Will things like college education, universal healthcare, etc. end income disparity?  No it won't because the rich will still be the rich, the homeless will still be with us, but it certainly would make life a whole lot better and alleviate some stress for the vast majority of people.

Edited by Tweety

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I point to the GI Bill after WWII that helped white veterans get trade school and college educations and contributed to an overall increase in household income. At that time it was a means of thanking vets for their service, as well as an investment in the U.S. Unfortunately , African Americans were not able to benefit. I understand that if our population is better educated, they may be less willing to take minimum wage jobs or enlist to fight wars. No wonder Trump wants to have highly educated immigrants, because we can't afford to educate our own. 

In my area, high school students can attend the local community college and technical college free of charge. Is this taking money away from one class to give to another? 

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5 minutes ago, nursej22 said:

In my area, high school students can attend the local community college and technical college free of charge. Is this taking money away from one class to give to another? 

Yes, taxes are "taking away from other people to give other people free stuff and how is that fair".  It's not "free" to the taxpayer even if the student doesn't pay. 

 

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10 minutes ago, nursej22 said:

In my area, high school students can attend the local community college and technical college free of charge. Is this taking money away from one class to give to another? 

I suspect if they are high school students, the college is getting paid still with high school education dollars.

Even if not, there is a difference between a small minority of high school students getting a few credits for free and free college tuition for everyone.

IMO, and I’ve said this and have elaborated many times before, providing free tuition is a backwards way to solve the student loan burden on society.

 

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7 minutes ago, Tweety said:

Yes, taxes are "taking away from other people to give other people free stuff and how is that fair".  It's not "free" to the taxpayer even if the student doesn't pay. 

 

Is that an argument, that it's not free to the tax payer? Clearly working class tax payers are on the hook for all manner of expensive endeavors, why can't education or health services that directly benefit their socioeconomic class be included?

 

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32 minutes ago, Tweety said:

While you may not see it on paper in that income might be the same, it does free up (for some people like doctors a significant amount) disposable income.  People that pay $500 a month in student loans for example might use that money for a new car instead of putting that spending off.  They may put it in local businesses.  They have $500 more extra dollars.   It stimulates the economy.  

Income disparity however is so vast between the rich and middle class, there really aren't any liberal ideas that are going to stop that from happening.  Even liberal politicians are loath to mess with the rich and powerful.  Income disparity grew wildly during the Obama years.  

I think we have good programs for the poor.  There are a variety of programs that help them get an education, food and healthcare.  It's the middle class people living paycheck to paycheck that have a heavy tax burden, that can't afford to send their kids to school and they take out huge loans, that pay high insurance premiums for crappy insurance with high co-pays that for profit healthcare organizations go after.  I have a coworker whose daughter had to go to court for not paying her medical bills timely enough.  

Will things like college education, universal healthcare, etc. end income disparity?  No it won't because the rich will still be the rich, the homeless will still be with us, but it certainly would make life a whole lot better and alleviate some stress for the vast majority of people.

I think we agree on what the problems facing us are, but differ in many cases on how to solve them.

Its too bad politics has become so polarizing that people dont seem to be able to appreciate what they do have in common in this regard.  

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8 minutes ago, SC_RNDude said:

I suspect if they are high school students, the college is getting paid still with high school education dollars.

Even if not, there is a difference between a small minority of high school students getting a few credits for free and free college tuition for everyone.

IMO, and I’ve said this and have elaborated many times before, providing free tuition is a backwards way to solve the student loan burden on society.

 

Until a sound idea to reduce costs and increase access to secondary education is forwarded by a conservative there's no reason to change course from pushing for subsidized education.

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51 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Until a sound idea to reduce costs and increase access to secondary education is forwarded by a conservative there's no reason to change course from pushing for subsidized education.

Subsidized education is what caused this mess.  Starting with when Democrats decided everyone should be eligible for subsidized loans and grants, regardless of need.

 I don’t see that the Republicans or Democrats have the political will to do what should be done.  Republicans will let things go as they are, which is bad.  Liberals will advocate for free tuition, which is worse.

Edited by SC_RNDude
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1 hour ago, SC_RNDude said:

IMO, and I’ve said this and have elaborated many times before, providing free tuition is a backwards way to solve the student loan burden on society.

 

I understand that one needs to address the issue of why university level education costs are so high and deal with it from that respect.   But like many hospitals and doctors have found a way to deal with medicaid and medicare saying "this is all we're paying you" and cut their costs maybe universities can do the same?

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1 hour ago, SC_RNDude said:

I think we agree on what the problems facing us are, but differ in many cases on how to solve them.

Its too bad politics has become so polarizing that people dont seem to be able to appreciate what they do have in common in this regard.  

This is an Era where the POTUS calls the press the enemy of the people, tells his followers not to believe what they see and hear, complains that there is a deep state plot to cheat him out of what Russia helped him attain, and encourages chants to lock up political opponents. Just consider the number of people who were exposed to and then embraced the Russian propaganda that said that American conservatives and liberals hate each other. 

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1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Is that an argument, that it's not free to the tax payer? Clearly working class tax payers are on the hook for all manner of expensive endeavors, why can't education or health services that directly benefit their socioeconomic class be included?

 

That's a good question.  I'm sure you know that I support the idea of education and healthcare, particularly for the middle class because the poor and rich already get it.  

My other question is why the same people that feel that taxation is a form of theft have no problem with $700 billion in military expenses a huge amount of that which is unnecessary and wasted.  

 

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Just now, Tweety said:

That's a good question.  I'm sure you know that I support the idea of education and healthcare, particularly for the middle class because the poor and rich already get it.  

My other question is why the same people that feel that taxation is a form of theft have no problem with $700 billion in military expenses a huge amount of that which is unnecessary and wasted.  

 

I was confident that you would take my question and remark without feeling personally attacked.  I appreciate that about your interactions. 

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