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President Trump National Scandal

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Did President Trump-Pence administration drop the ball?

  1. 1. Did President Trump-Pence administration drop the ball?

    • Yes
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      2

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On 5/14/2020 at 1:30 AM, MunoRN said:

I think Fauci's a good guy in general, but it should be noted he is an immunologist, and a very accomplished one, but he's not an infectious disease doctor or an epidemiologist and has no formal training in these specialties.

For a variety of reasons, it's time to start pulling back on mitigation measures.  The biggest barrier is that pretty much every way of doing that depends on people's ability to use good judgement in continuing to limit avoidable risks, and I think what we've seen is that there's a relatively small group of people who's poor judgement has the potential to ruin any 'reopening' potential that might be otherwise achievable.

Thanks for the correction, I did call him an epidemiologist which is a mistake.  But he is an expert on infectious disease.  That said, he is doing what is expected of such experts and giving his opinion based on best guess on what could happen and worst case scenario.   Now he's being criticized for being wrong.  I think that's a misguided approach to him because perhaps he's wrong because of people heeding the warnings, we locked down and social distanced especially watching what was happening in Lombardy and New York.

The infectious disease leaders here in Florida are telling our governor the same thing, as he moves to phase 2 of the reopening which is allowing moving from 25 to 75 percent capacity in restaurants with social distancing and perhaps opening up gyms (we'll hear today).  They say we need more time for analysis of the effects and he's moving too fast.  Florida added another 800 cases and 50 deaths yesterday.  A rise from the day before (we seem to see saw from one good day to one not-so-good day, but definitely not a lowering).

The governor seems to be trying to balance the information from these experts, but also experts from social and economic sciences.  He's mentioned the psychological importance to people of getting outside, socializing, exercising and working.  This is something scientists don't consider, and they shouldn't.  There seems to be camps of people that only want to listen to science and worst case "what if's".

As you might know from my posts I do agree with the easing of mitigation measures and posted how a few on the fringe will ruin it for us all.  

I'm happy Facui seems to have thick skin, but if I were so disrespected by politicians and said my science was "not an acceptable answer", "you're not the end all", I would pack it up with a screw you attitude and move on, especially if I were 79 years old.  I can't imagine having to work for Trump.   I certainly wouldn't go out quietly though.  

Edited by Tweety

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52 minutes ago, Tweety said:

Thanks for the correction, I did call him an epidemiologist which is a mistake.  But he is an expert on infectious disease.  That said, he is doing what is expected of such experts and giving his opinion based on best guess on what could happen and worst case scenario.   Now he's being criticized for being wrong.  I think that's a misguided approach to him because perhaps he's wrong because of people heeding the warnings, we locked down and social distanced especially watching what was happening in Lombardy and New York.

The infectious disease leaders here in Florida are telling our governor the same thing, as he moves to phase 2 of the reopening which is allowing moving from 25 to 75 percent capacity in restaurants with social distancing and perhaps opening up gyms (we'll hear today).  They say we need more time for analysis of the effects and he's moving too fast.  Florida added another 800 cases and 50 deaths yesterday.  A rise from the day before (we seem to see saw from one good day to one not-so-good day, but definitely not a lowering).

The governor seems to be trying to balance the information from these experts, but also experts from social and economic sciences.  He's mentioned the psychological importance to people of getting outside, socializing, exercising and working.  This is something scientists don't consider, and they shouldn't.  There seems to be camps of people that only want to listen to science and worst case "what if's".

As you might know from my posts I do agree with the easing of mitigation measures and posted how a few on the fringe will ruin it for us all.  

I'm happy Facui seems to have thick skin, but if I were so disrespected by politicians and said my science was "not an acceptable answer", "you're not the end all", I would pack it up with a screw you attitude and move on, especially if I were 79 years old.  I can't imagine having to work for Trump.   I certainly wouldn't go out quietly though.  

 

"The governor seems to be trying to balance the information from these experts, but also experts from social and economic sciences. He's mentioned the psychological importance to people of getting outside, socializing, exercising, and working. This is something scientists don't consider, and they shouldn't. There seem to be camps of people that only want to listen to science and worst-case "what ifs."


Nurses are scientists we have considered socializing. That is why there facetime, Zoom, Google video, Microsoft team, and host of video conferencing with family and friends.


Yes, exercising while maintaining social distancing is essential; it prevents the spread of the infection.


Are you stating money is more important than living?


People should be demanding the federal government supplement their company pay-checks instead of the complete shutdown and high numbers of unemployment.


The federal government should have figure out farmers could sell to the US citizens and people around the world. There is enough food where no person should starve or go to bed hungry.


I am not sure why no question why Donald Trump does not have the same rules of opening everything up for himself and his family. Would he get on the bus and train? Would he fly on a crowded plane or let his family get on a crowded flight? Would he allow his children to attend school if there is no cure? Trump supporters need to wake up and realize Trump has two sets of the rule.  

Edited by luv2

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19 minutes ago, luv2 said:

Are you stating money is more important than living?

There is no answer and this always trumps every argument over easing restrictions and I really tired of it and won't answer. 

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“Flattening the curve didn’t mean stop the infection, but spread it out so that the system could handle it. I am seeing so much anxiety about resuming business, and so much anger about continued regulations. People are feeling the need to catapult to one side or the other, then fight the opposition.

Here’s my perspective, from a mainstream medical model. I think a lot of folks have fallen into the idea that social distancing was meant to stop the viral spread. It wasn’t. It was meant to SLOW it while we put medical infrastructure in place. It’s not perfect, but it’s much better than it was seven weeks ago.

A vaccine is a long way off. At some point, people have to be systematically exposed to begin the building of (hopeful) herd immunity. We will likely begin to experience a real increase in cases after reopening. Ideally, that exposure is controlled and calculated, in phases, to allow our medical community to respond adequately, and reduce the number of severe or fatal cases. That’s where we are.

Whether you feel like things will be opening too soon, or not soon enough, we were never going to social distance this thing into nonexistence. You now need to proceed as your health, wallet, and conscience allow.

If you are medically vulnerable, you do not need to be a part of what is about to happen. Stay home if you can. If you’re not, or if your financial vulnerability trumps your health concerns, you need to proceed in ways that continue to protect yourself, and the elderly and medically vulnerable around you.

All of us need to calm down. Quit telling people who are financially struggling that they don’t care about human lives. Quit telling people who are truly at risk of dying from this virus that they are cowering in fear. Remember that until you’ve walked in someone else’s shoes, you should probably be careful in your judgments and subsequent harsh words.

We don’t HAVE to choose an either/or proposition and fight. We could choose other ways to be. Examples include but are not limited to:

“I think this may be too soon, so I will continue to shelter myself, and pray/make masks/ check on those who can’t.”

“I really need to go back to work, so I will do so, but I will be careful and try to protect myself, my family, and those around me with healthy strategies.”

See how those positions allow each of us to do what we need to, and also respect those who are choosing differently?

One thing that allows us to do this is humility. I can acknowledge that I am not an epidemiologist/economist/whatever, that I am making decisions based on my understanding of complex subjects and my own personal health and financial situation, that I am not all knowing, always right, and an expert in all fields, and that each person around me is doing their best too. 

We can make different choices and still be a supportive community. 
We can learn and evolve in our understanding of these issues.”

- Author Unknown

 

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2 hours ago, Tweety said:

Thanks for the correction, I did call him an epidemiologist which is a mistake.  But he is an expert on infectious disease.  That said, he is doing what is expected of such experts and giving his opinion based on best guess on what could happen and worst case scenario.   Now he's being criticized for being wrong.  I think that's a misguided approach to him because perhaps he's wrong because of people heeding the warnings, we locked down and social distanced especially watching what was happening in Lombardy and New York.

The infectious disease leaders here in Florida are telling our governor the same thing, as he moves to phase 2 of the reopening which is allowing moving from 25 to 75 percent capacity in restaurants with social distancing and perhaps opening up gyms (we'll hear today).  They say we need more time for analysis of the effects and he's moving too fast.  Florida added another 800 cases and 50 deaths yesterday.  A rise from the day before (we seem to see saw from one good day to one not-so-good day, but definitely not a lowering).

The governor seems to be trying to balance the information from these experts, but also experts from social and economic sciences.  He's mentioned the psychological importance to people of getting outside, socializing, exercising and working.  This is something scientists don't consider, and they shouldn't.  There seems to be camps of people that only want to listen to science and worst case "what if's".

As you might know from my posts I do agree with the easing of mitigation measures and posted how a few on the fringe will ruin it for us all.  

I'm happy Facui seems to have thick skin, but if I were so disrespected by politicians and said my science was "not an acceptable answer", "you're not the end all", I would pack it up with a screw you attitude and move on, especially if I were 79 years old.  I can't imagine having to work for Trump.   I certainly wouldn't go out quietly though.  

Governor Beshear talks about the importance of outdoor exercise DAILY during his briefings.

He encourages Kentuckians to go for a walk or run every single press briefing.

He also talks about using social media to stay connected.

May be Governor DeSantis doesn't do those things, but Beshear always has, from day one.

We also have the Team Kentucky Fund, which is made up of private donations, and has more than $3 million in the coffers.

Eligible Kentuckians can receive up to $1000. All you have to do is show that your income has dropped by 50% due to CVirus.

There are not many times I am proud of this state, but Kentucky is doing a great job, compared to many other states, of caring for residents.

Again, why should Fauci leave?

He is doing a good job.

It is the failing, lying Trump who needs to go!

Besides, Dr. Fauci doesn't appear to be the kind who backs down from a fight.

Kudos to him!

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If Rand Paul insults you, Tweety, it really is meaningless.

He is clearly suffering from a TBI.

 

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Hope you all look at coverage of the Red Hat Rally at the MI state House yesterday.

One right-wing extremist brought an AX, and another had an effigy of the governor hanging from a noose.

You can see a picture of that Trumpster, in today's WaPo.

Reasonable people? No.

Good people? No.

Dangerous extremists.

I can only imagine how they will react in November, when their leader is defeated.

Edited by Lil Nel

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1 hour ago, luv2 said:

 

"The governor seems to be trying to balance the information from these experts, but also experts from social and economic sciences. He's mentioned the psychological importance to people of getting outside, socializing, exercising, and working. This is something scientists don't consider, and they shouldn't. There seem to be camps of people that only want to listen to science and worst-case "what ifs."


Nurses are scientists we have considered socializing. That is why there facetime, Zoom, Google video, Microsoft team, and host of video conferencing with family and friends.


Yes, exercising while maintaining social distancing is essential; it prevents the spread of the infection.


Are you stating money is more important than living?


People should be demanding the federal government supplement their company pay-checks instead of the complete shutdown and high numbers of unemployment.


The federal government should have figure out farmers could sell to the US citizens and people around the world. There is enough food where no person should starve or go to bed hungry.


I am not sure why no question why Donald Trump does not have the same rules of opening everything up for himself and his family. Would he get on the bus and train? Would he fly on a crowded plane or let his family get on a crowded flight? Would he allow his children to attend school if there is no cure? Trump supporters need to wake up and realize Trump has two sets of the rule.  

Yes.

The Red Hats should take their weapons and demonstrate outside the WH and Mitch McConnell's office and demand they support a plan to subsidize the wages of workers, the way they have subsidized the profits of corporations.

 

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1 hour ago, Lil Nel said:

 

Again, why should Fauci leave?

 

I answered your question already.    

I get it, he's doing a good job.  Some people are satisfied knowing they do a good job even if berated by others around them.  That's not me, and certainly I can't imagine that being my 79 year old self.

Still even with the #firefauci movement, a whole lot of people do appreciate what he's doing so his motivation is his and not mine and I'm happy for that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/05/14/fauci-loses-support-from-republicans-after-trump-criticism-poll-shows/#48a4f74829d8

Edited by Tweety

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Just listened to BBC report on CVirus in Vietnam.

They haven't experienced a single case in a month.

But, the country undertook strict lockdown measures in early March.

They quarantined 200,000 people in government run shelters and hotels.

They quarantined travelers into the country.

Vietnam, a small, not terribly wealthy country, can do what the US is incapable of.

Trumpsters ought to be ashamed.

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4 minutes ago, Tweety said:

I answered your question already.    

I get it, he's doing a good job.  Some people are satisfied knowing they do a good job even if berated by others around them.  That's not me, and certainly I can't imagine that being my 79 year old self.

Still even with the #firefauci movement, a whole lot of people do appreciate what he's doing so his motivation is his and not mine and I'm happy for that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/05/14/fauci-loses-support-from-republicans-after-trump-criticism-poll-shows/#48a4f74829d8

The anti-Fauci movement has been around for quite a while.

I appreciate his 'not back down' attitude.

Especially when facing off against a moron like Trump, and Rand Paul, TBI not withstanding.

Btw-Paul's home base of Bowling Green, is a 'hot spot' in KY.

He must be so proud!

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8 minutes ago, Lil Nel said:

Just listened to BBC report on CVirus in Vietnam.

They haven't experienced a single case in a month.

But, the country undertook strict lockdown measures in early March.

They quarantined 200,000 people in government run shelters and hotels.

They quarantined travelers into the country.

Vietnam, a small, not terribly wealthy country, can do what the US is incapable of.

Trumpsters ought to be ashamed.

Yep, they went after the virus early and did an amazing job.  We missed that opportunity.

Of course being a communist county the populace is obviously more compliant that spoiled mouthy Americans.

Vietnam has a strong and vibrant economy.  They've practically eliminated "extreme poverty".  I saw that when I visited.  They've experienced near double digit growth for a long time.  They will rebound nicely. 

But they are easing restrictions even though it hasn't disappeared and perhaps it's the way the are reporting their cases a being "zero" for a month.  They should take pride in no domestically transmitted cases.  If a communist country without real free press is to be trusted that is.  

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vietnam/vietnam-reports-24-new-coronavirus-cases-all-imported-cases-pass-300-idUSKBN22R03R

Edited by Tweety

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