Jump to content
luv2 luv2 (Member)

President Trump National Scandal

Politics   (231,672 Views 1,311 Comments)
8,859 Visitors; 707 Posts
If you find this topic helpful leave a comment.

You are reading page 92 of President Trump National Scandal. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

Did President Trump-Pence administration drop the ball?

  1. 1. Did President Trump-Pence administration drop the ball?

    • Yes
      15
    • No
      2

17 members have participated

  • Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.
  • Poll closes on 03/02/2022 at 05:42 PM
1 hour ago, MunoRN said:

I agree there's a lot of non-sensical rules and some measures where we could ease up in terms of mitigation, but in general we're already doing that.  And while our mitigation efforts harm the economy, it's a false assumption that the effects of not mitigating a pandemic doesn't do just as much if not more damage to the economy.

I'm curious what you're basing your belief on that COVID-19 isn't really all that bad.  Rick Bright released his testimony today, and he points out that we're still in a position for this to be more devastating than the 50 million who died in the 1918 pandemic.  We're two months in to a pandemic likely to last years, and in that time there have been 300k deaths worldwide, 80k in the US and that's with mitigation measures in place, and in just 2 months.  

I'm also not sure where you're getting that outside of some 'outliers' that hospitals haven't been overwhelmed or at least stretched thin.   You've offered that hospitals in your area haven't had any issues, yet I'm not having any trouble finding reports of PPE shortages throughout Colorado hospitals.

I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but what you seem to be arguing is that because mitigation measures did what they were supposed to do, that proves we don't actually need those mitigation measures.  That's like if patient comes into the hospital having a STEMI and are taken to the cath lab and stented, that it would make sense if the patient then argued they didn't need the stent because they're still alive (thanks to the stent).  

 

Bold mine.

That is a behavior common among those with mental illness. The medicine made them feel better, so they stop taking the medicine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MunoRN said:

I agree there's a lot of non-sensical rules and some measures where we could ease up in terms of mitigation, but in general we're already doing that.  And while our mitigation efforts harm the economy, it's a false assumption that the effects of not mitigating a pandemic doesn't do just as much if not more damage to the economy.

I'm curious what you're basing your belief on that COVID-19 isn't really all that bad.  Rick Bright released his testimony today, and he points out that we're still in a position for this to be more devastating than the 50 million who died in the 1918 pandemic.  We're two months in to a pandemic likely to last years, and in that time there have been 300k deaths worldwide, 80k in the US and that's with mitigation measures in place, and in just 2 months.  

I'm also not sure where you're getting that outside of some 'outliers' that hospitals haven't been overwhelmed or at least stretched thin.   You've offered that hospitals in your area haven't had any issues, yet I'm not having any trouble finding reports of PPE shortages throughout Colorado hospitals.

I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but what you seem to be arguing is that because mitigation measures did what they were supposed to do, that proves we don't actually need those mitigation measures.  That's like if patient comes into the hospital having a STEMI and are taken to the cath lab and stented, that it would make sense if the patient then argued they didn't need the stent because they're still alive (thanks to the stent).  

 

^^This

A lot of people are saying it's not that bad.  "Look at New York, they didn't even need all those beds!"

They take it further saying "see, the lockdowns weren't even necessary" as is 80,000 deaths in a couple of months is no big deal.

I agree that yes, it wasn't as bad as the worst case scenerio, and all those ventilators weren't needed, and hospitals have plenty of ICU beds and few sick people.   But my take on it is that it wasn't that bad precisely because of the lockdown.  I guess we'll never know if we would have had the same results lockdown or no lockdown.  

I do know that in Florida it's pretty well established that we were to be the next New York or Lombardy but we locked down and that didn't happen.  Still yesterday we had close to 1000 cases.  My hospital went from zero to nine positive cases he last couple of days, and another hospital in town has a lot.  Mostly from nursing homes.  It's not over.

Is it time get out of lockdown?  I think in some areas it is.  

I really don't think we've reached a point though of "economic panic"  when upwards of 80% of the population is still working,  I think armed militia guarding a barber, and bazooka wearing white men storming protesting their rights have another agenda and it's not starvation or economic panic.

I know people are stretched pretty much to the limit and to their tolerances and politicians are seizing upon this to advance their own agenda of extremism. 

Trump and Rand Paul are casting doubt and demonizing Fauci (while the left is elevating him to Godlike status that an epidemiologist doesn't deserve), mobilizing the right wing base and agenda besides helping the common small business owner.

 

 

Edited by Tweety

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

COVID-19 is back in China after they reopen. While Trump is encouraging the U.S to open which is irresponsible.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tweety said:

^^This

A lot of people are saying it's not that bad.  "Look at New York, they didn't even need all those beds!"

They take it further saying "see, the lockdowns weren't even necessary" as is 80,000 deaths in a couple of months is no big deal.

I agree that yes, it wasn't as bad as the worst case scenerio, and all those ventilators weren't needed, and hospitals have plenty of ICU beds and few sick people.   But my take on it is that it wasn't that bad precisely because of the lockdown.  I guess we'll never know if we would have had the same results lockdown or no lockdown.  

I do know that in Florida it's pretty well established that we were to be the next New York or Lombardy but we locked down and that didn't happen.  Still yesterday we had close to 1000 cases.  My hospital went from zero to nine positive cases he last couple of days, and another hospital in town has a lot.  Mostly from nursing homes.  It's not over.

Is it time get out of lockdown?  I think in some areas it is.  

I really don't think we've reached a point though of "economic panic"  when upwards of 80% of the population is still working,  I think armed militia guarding a barber, and bazooka wearing white men storming protesting their rights have another agenda and it's not starvation or economic panic.

I know people are stretched pretty much to the limit and to their tolerances and politicians are seizing upon this to advance their own agenda of extremism. 

Trump and Rand Paul are casting doubt and demonizing Fauci (while the left is elevating him to Godlike status that an epidemiologist doesn't deserve), mobilizing the right wing base and agenda besides helping the common small business owner.

 

 

I think Fauci's a good guy in general, but it should be noted he is an immunologist, and a very accomplished one, but he's not an infectious disease doctor or an epidemiologist and has no formal training in these specialties.

For a variety of reasons, it's time to start pulling back on mitigation measures.  The biggest barrier is that pretty much every way of doing that depends on people's ability to use good judgement in continuing to limit avoidable risks, and I think what we've seen is that there's a relatively small group of people who's poor judgement has the potential to ruin any 'reopening' potential that might be otherwise achievable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tweety said:

^^This

A lot of people are saying it's not that bad.  "Look at New York, they didn't even need all those beds!"

They take it further saying "see, the lockdowns weren't even necessary" as is 80,000 deaths in a couple of months is no big deal.

I agree that yes, it wasn't as bad as the worst case scenerio, and all those ventilators weren't needed, and hospitals have plenty of ICU beds and few sick people.   But my take on it is that it wasn't that bad precisely because of the lockdown.  I guess we'll never know if we would have had the same results lockdown or no lockdown.  

I do know that in Florida it's pretty well established that we were to be the next New York or Lombardy but we locked down and that didn't happen.  Still yesterday we had close to 1000 cases.  My hospital went from zero to nine positive cases he last couple of days, and another hospital in town has a lot.  Mostly from nursing homes.  It's not over.

Is it time get out of lockdown?  I think in some areas it is.  

I really don't think we've reached a point though of "economic panic"  when upwards of 80% of the population is still working,  I think armed militia guarding a barber, and bazooka wearing white men storming protesting their rights have another agenda and it's not starvation or economic panic.

I know people are stretched pretty much to the limit and to their tolerances and politicians are seizing upon this to advance their own agenda of extremism. 

Trump and Rand Paul are casting doubt and demonizing Fauci (while the left is elevating him to Godlike status that an epidemiologist doesn't deserve), mobilizing the right wing base and agenda besides helping the common small business owner.

 

 

I haven't heard or read any person elevating Dr Fauci to Godlike status. I have seen and participated in proper defense of his credentials and professional reputation against unfounded and largely partisan attacks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I haven't heard or read any person elevating Dr Fauci to Godlike status. I have seen and participated in proper defense of his credentials and professional reputation against unfounded and largely partisan attacks. 

I admit I was exaggerating.  But he certainly has been elevated to a high pedestal.   I like this description of his him.  
 

Quote

Fauci is an important voice in this debate, if only one voice. He is neither the dastardly bureaucratic mastermind imposing his will on the country that his detractors on the right make him out to be nor the philosopher-king in waiting that his boosters on the left inflate him into. He’s simply an epidemiologist, one who brings considerable expertise and experience to the table, but at the end of the day, his focus is inevitably and rightly quite narrow.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/05/13/fauci-is-not-the-villain-257008

He's doing his job.  He's not an economist, he's monitoring the disease.

He is a 79 career man that knows his stuff and after Trump said his assessment of sending kids back to school was "not an acceptable answer" I really think he should go out with a bang, retire,  and tell Trump to kiss his ass on the way out.  

Edited by Tweety

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tweety said:

I admit I was exaggerating.  But he certainly has been elevated to a high pedestal.   I like this description of his him.  
 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/05/13/fauci-is-not-the-villain-257008

He's doing his job.  He's not an economist, he's monitoring the disease.

He is a 79 career man that knows his stuff and after Trump said his assessment of sending kids back to school was "not an acceptable answer" I really think he should go out with a bang, retire,  and tell Trump to kiss his ass on the way out.  

Why should Fauci retire?

He has an important role to play during this pandemic.

The one who should retire is Trump.

He has no effective role to play in any aspect of this thing called life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MunoRN said:

I think Fauci's a good guy in general, but it should be noted he is an immunologist, and a very accomplished one, but he's not an infectious disease doctor or an epidemiologist and has no formal training in these specialties.

For a variety of reasons, it's time to start pulling back on mitigation measures.  The biggest barrier is that pretty much every way of doing that depends on people's ability to use good judgement in continuing to limit avoidable risks, and I think what we've seen is that there's a relatively small group of people who's poor judgement has the potential to ruin any 'reopening' potential that might be otherwise achievable.

Here is a good example of people in WI exercising poor judgement, crowding into bars, no social distancing, no masks, etc.

From today's WaPo:

Crowds, Liberated And Thirsty, Descend On Bars In WI

Never underestimate the number of dumb asses in this country.

It has long been a Trumpster talking point to downplay the severity of CVirus, just as their leader has.

Just part of the Trumpster propaganda.

Again, they should be thanking the universe that not all hospital beds and ventilators have needed to be used.

Instead, they use the unused numbers to try and push their leader's agenda.

It's both sad and pathetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I haven't heard or read any person elevating Dr Fauci to Godlike status. I have seen and participated in proper defense of his credentials and professional reputation against unfounded and largely partisan attacks. 

Yes. Of course.

Trumpsters have been attacking Fauci for quite a while.

I posted those NY Times articles of right-wingers calling him part of the "Deep State," more than a month ago.

It is obvious why they attack him.

He speaks Truth to Trump's LIES.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/13/2020 at 4:04 PM, MunoRN said:

I'm curious what you're basing your belief on that COVID-19 isn't really all that bad.  Rick Bright released his testimony today, and he points out that we're still in a position for this to be more devastating than the 50 million who died in the 1918 pandemic.  We're two months in to a pandemic likely to last years, and in that time there have been 300k deaths worldwide, 80k in the US and that's with mitigation measures in place, and in just 2 months.  

I've never said "isnt really that bad". 

Yes, we heard from Rick Bright, and everyday we hear from Fauci, who has been wrong several times.  Why didn't we hear from experts who have another point of view?  For example, the Stanford researcher whose article I posted weeks ago.

On 5/13/2020 at 4:04 PM, MunoRN said:

I'm also not sure where you're getting that outside of some 'outliers' that hospitals haven't been overwhelmed or at least stretched thin.   You've offered that hospitals in your area haven't had any issues, yet I'm not having any trouble finding reports of PPE shortages throughout Colorado hospitals.

I still stand by that.  A shortage of ppe isnt what I meant by being overwhelmed.  Your example is incorrect anyway.  Colorado has a great website with interesting stats that are updated everyday.  One question it asks hospitals to report is if they expect to be short of ppe in the next week.  The number each day is usually 2-3 hospitals in the state say yes.

Approximately 350 vents are in use out of a little more them 1000 in the state.  At its peak it was around 500.

We have the highest death rate west of the Mississippi.   But, have never been overwhelmed.

On 5/13/2020 at 4:04 PM, MunoRN said:

I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but what you seem to be arguing is that because mitigation measures did what they were supposed to do, that proves we don't actually need those mitigation measures. 

Yes, your have grossly misunderstood.  I have never said mitigation is unnecessary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow.

New Zealand largely reopened today.

A nation of 5 million people, has experienced 21 deaths from CVirus.

They have have experienced several days in a row, of NO new cases of CVirus.

They did it, via strict lockdown conditions.

Impressive.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lil Nel said:

Wow.

New Zealand largely reopened today.

A nation of 5 million people, has experienced 21 deaths from CVirus.

They have have experienced several days in a row, of NO new cases of CVirus.

They did it, via strict lockdown conditions.

Impressive.

 

There is a second wave hitting China. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
×

This site uses cookies. By using this site, you consent to the placement of these cookies. Read our Privacy, Cookies, and Terms of Service Policies to learn more.