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President Trump National Scandal

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You are reading page 116 of President Trump National Scandal. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

Did President Trump-Pence administration drop the ball?

  1. 1. Did President Trump-Pence administration drop the ball?

    • Yes
      18
    • No
      2

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  • Poll closes on 03/02/2022 at 05:42 PM
8 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

New York, and many other places had extra beds set up in parks, convention centers, hospital ships in LA and NYC.  All of which were very little used or not used at all. 

Save the "those weren't meant for covid patients" excuse.  Maybe they weren't at first, but things change.  Or, if you have too send non covid patients out to those beds and keep covid in the hospital, do that.  

Sending covid patients into nursing homes led to deaths.

Hindsight is foresight, and I think "those were saved for Covid patients" is a valid one.  I think in a situation were inpatient beds were stretched to the max, staff was stretched to the max and people were dying by the hundreds, perhaps decisions were made at the moment for a worst case scenario that didn't happen.  Making the decision to send nursing home patients that were nursing home qualified end not hospital qualified ultimately might have stabbed them in the back but made sense at the time of such dire need.  We forget the scenes of near disaster at the time.  Plus like all of us that see new units open up the question begs "who is going to staff them?".  Do we use our military to staff a nursing home unit?

The irony is all those deaths freed up beds such that other beds weren't ultimately needed and their social distancing mitigation efforts and quarantine saved them the worst case scenario.  

Anyway, I'm not saying you're wrong.  Hindsight will provide lessons learned, if only we were the type of society that did that.

I do think looking back at how New York handled it is important.  But I think conservatives only want to promote the faults and mistakes and look for "another example of liberal corruption" merely to take the heat off of their leader Trump.  

New York is a mess with a high rate of infection, with NYC having nearly 20% of people infected.  But the rate of transmission is now low because of their efforts and time passing that the worst case scenario didn't happen.  They did the best they could.

Unlike Wisconsin that was forced to open up by their Supreme Court, after which they are having record high numbers of infections.  They had as many new infections as Florida with 4 times the population.  (Not yesterday though as Florida spiked again).

 

Edited by Tweety

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2 hours ago, Tweety said:

Unlike Wisconsin that was forced to open up by their Supreme Court, after which they are having record high numbers of infections.  They had as many new infections as Florida with 4 times the population.  (Not yesterday though as Florida spiked again).

They are also having record numbers of testing done, with most recently about 5.4% being positive.  I think you said Florida's rate of infection is 10% of those tested?  It seems Wisconsin's ability to test is a big part of the increased number of cases.

"The state Department of Health Services reported 733 new cases of coronavirus Friday, Wisconsin's largest single-day increase — by more than 100 cases — since the pandemic began.  

Friday's new cases accounted for about 5.4% of the more than 13,600 tests processed since Thursday.

That's also a new record for the number of tests run in a single day, up significantly from Thursday's record-setting number of 10,626."

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/05/29/wisconsin-sees-its-largest-single-day-increase-coronavirus-cases-and-its-first-children-multisystem/5287066002/

Wisconsin is in the near the bottom, or fewest,  of deaths per capita.  Better then Florida or Kentucky.

2 hours ago, Tweety said:

I do think looking back at how New York handled it is important.  But I think conservatives only want to promote the faults and mistakes and look for "another example of liberal corruption" merely to take the heat off of their leader Trump.  

There isnt heat to be taken off Trump.  Especially if "hindsight is foresight ".  Liberals only want to highlight the faults and mistakes.

Some were predicting 2 million or more deaths this summer.  One poster here predicted 5-6 million.  That seems unlikely now.

If Trump is going to be blamed for all the mistakes made, then he should get credit for far fewer deaths happening then predicted.

Not "my leader ".  You've stayed out of the cultist talk in the past.  No reason to start now. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

Went to a outside gathering at a park today with a half a dozen coworkers.   We've all been working in close quarters for two plus months now.  Much like living in a household together.  Sat a few feet apart from each other.  

Not totally risk free,  but relatively low.

I've also visited my parents the past few months while sitting in their front yard and they on the porch.

Some gatherings need more mitigation then others.

I've asked you at least two questions in the past couple of days.

Why no response?

The questions all involve your leader.

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There is a 60-year-old Kentucky man, in Mercer County, who tested positive for Coronavirus without displaying any symptoms.

So, the smart person treats everybody as a source of potential infection.

Unless, of course, you go home with your co-workers every night, and have all the same contacts as they do.

The source of outbreaks in nursing homes and prisons, are the employees.

Sure seems foolish to think that you are relatively safe with people you only spend 36, or 37 hours a week with.

 

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3 hours ago, Tweety said:

Hindsight is foresight, and I think "those were saved for Covid patients" is a valid one.  I think in a situation were inpatient beds were stretched to the max, staff was stretched to the max and people were dying by the hundreds, perhaps decisions were made at the moment for a worst case scenario that didn't happen.  Making the decision to send nursing home patients that were nursing home qualified end not hospital qualified ultimately might have stabbed them in the back but made sense at the time of such dire need.  We forget the scenes of near disaster at the time.  Plus like all of us that see new units open up the question begs "who is going to staff them?".  Do we use our military to staff a nursing home unit?

The irony is all those deaths freed up beds such that other beds weren't ultimately needed and their social distancing mitigation efforts and quarantine saved them the worst case scenario.  

Anyway, I'm not saying you're wrong.  Hindsight will provide lessons learned, if only we were the type of society that did that.

I do think looking back at how New York handled it is important.  But I think conservatives only want to promote the faults and mistakes and look for "another example of liberal corruption" merely to take the heat off of their leader Trump.  

New York is a mess with a high rate of infection, with NYC having nearly 20% of people infected.  But the rate of transmission is now low because of their efforts and time passing that the worst case scenario didn't happen.  They did the best they could.

Unlike Wisconsin that was forced to open up by their Supreme Court, after which they are having record high numbers of infections.  They had as many new infections as Florida with 4 times the population.  (Not yesterday though as Florida spiked again).

 

NYC had 20,000 Deaths in roughly a two month period.

I listened to story on NPR, in which a reporter followed the military personnel, whose job it was to pick up bodies from nursing homes, hospitals, and such places, and bring them to refridgerated trucks in Brooklyn.

The reporter also interviewed funeral directors, who were completely overwhelmed.

Everybody should be GRATEFUL that resources were in place, should they be needed.

But the Right-Wingers use such information, to bolster their failed leader's claim that Coronavirus is no worse than the flu, and Trumpty-Dumpty did such a good job, blah, blah, blah.

Pay them no mind.

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18 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

New York, and many other places had extra beds set up in parks, convention centers, hospital ships in LA and NYC.  All of which were very little used or not used at all. 

Save the "those weren't meant for covid patients" excuse.  Maybe they weren't at first, but things change.  Or, if you have too send non covid patients out to those beds and keep covid in the hospital, do that.  

Sending covid patients into nursing homes led to deaths.

I don't really agree that Cuomo's inability to use time-travel to avoid these issues is a valid criticism.

The NY Dept of Health advisory notice that nursing homes must readmit patients it had sent to hospitals for treatment of COVID was on March 25th, The Javitz center wasn't ready to take patients until two weeks later, and the hospital ship was not taking patients (COVID or not) until April, and the tents in NYC parks weren't ready until after that.  

The requirement for nursing homes was as follows: "During this global health emergency, all NHs must comply with the expedited receipt of residents returning from hospitals to NHs".  These were patients returning to nursing homes that already had COVID patients, they weren't introducing COVID to these nursing homes.  Keeping these patients in the hospital despite no longer requiring hospital-level care would have further prevented hospitals from providing appropriate care to those who actually needed it, that's what leads to deaths.  

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13 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

They are also having record numbers of testing done, with most recently about 5.4% being positive.  I think you said Florida's rate of infection is 10% of those tested?  It seems Wisconsin's ability to test is a big part of the increased number of cases.

"The state Department of Health Services reported 733 new cases of coronavirus Friday, Wisconsin's largest single-day increase — by more than 100 cases — since the pandemic began.  

Friday's new cases accounted for about 5.4% of the more than 13,600 tests processed since Thursday.

That's also a new record for the number of tests run in a single day, up significantly from Thursday's record-setting number of 10,626."

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/05/29/wisconsin-sees-its-largest-single-day-increase-coronavirus-cases-and-its-first-children-multisystem/5287066002/

Wisconsin is in the near the bottom, or fewest,  of deaths per capita.  Better then Florida or Kentucky.

There isnt heat to be taken off Trump.  Especially if "hindsight is foresight ".  Liberals only want to highlight the faults and mistakes.

Some were predicting 2 million or more deaths this summer.  One poster here predicted 5-6 million.  That seems unlikely now.

If Trump is going to be blamed for all the mistakes made, then he should get credit for far fewer deaths happening then predicted.

Not "my leader ".  You've stayed out of the cultist talk in the past.  No reason to start now. 

 

 

I get that increased testing leads to finding more positives cases being found, but that still would be indicative that increased testing is needed, and that perhaps it's always been much worse than thought due to under testing.  I can't blow off high numbers with a "that's just because we had a high number of people tested".  Regardless it means more people are infected.

Without national leadership and a plan you wondered if we even needed, then Trump really shouldn't get any credit for a worst case scenario not happening.  The states took care of that themselves.  They deserve the credit.   I haven't disapproved of all he's done.  Ultimately with a lot of flip flop and antics, he still got some things done that were helpful in the pandemic.  We got caught with our pants down with a ill prepared pandemic team early on.  It could have happened to anyone.  It happened to Spain, Italy, England and Germany as well.  

But forget 100,000 dead, he can go with "it wasn't as bad as predicted" and see how that flies with voters.  

If you don't think there isn't heat to be taken off of Trump, truly you have blinders on.  His early response to it being "the new hoax" will echo for a long time.  

 

Edited by Tweety

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5 hours ago, Tweety said:

I get that increased testing leads to finding more positives cases being found, but that still would be indicative that increased testing is needed, and that perhaps it's always been much worse than thought due to under testing.  I can't blow off high numbers with a "that's just because we had a high number of people tested".  Regardless it means more people are infected.

Without national leadership and a plan you wondered if we even needed, then Trump really shouldn't get any credit for a worst case scenario not happening.  The states took care of that themselves.  They deserve the credit.   I haven't disapproved of all he's done.  Ultimately with a lot of flip flop and antics, he still got some things done that were helpful in the pandemic.  We got caught with our pants down with a ill prepared pandemic team early on.  It could have happened to anyone.  It happened to Spain, Italy, England and Germany as well.  

But forget 100,000 dead, he can go with "it wasn't as bad as predicted" and see how that flies with voters.  

If you don't think there isn't heat to be taken off of Trump, truly you have blinders on.  His early response to it being "the new hoax" will echo for a long time.  

 

Trump is going to wish he had behaved like a leader when dealing with pandemic.

Because with two dozen American cities experiencing rioting and protesters surrounding the WH for a second night, it is looking like the death of a Black man is going to knock him out.

Just another example of Trump failing and flailing.

Perhaps he should have engaged Colin Kaepernick, inside of vilifying him.

Trump has ZERO credibility with the Black community, and for good reasons.

My popcorn popper is ON.

Let's see what the moron does to quell the angry protesters.

 

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3 hours ago, Lil Nel said:

Trump has ZERO credibility with the Black community, and for good reasons.

My popcorn popper is ON.

Let's see what the moron does to quell the angry protesters.

 

We'll see but a lot of the protesters rase angry at white leadership and established brutality in general, not necessarily at Trump.  But yes on a national level they are slamming people that had a problem with Colin Kaepernick is going viral again.

In nearby Tampa, with a female former police officer as mayor there was violence and looting that wasn't necessarily directed at Trump.  The mayor even marched in a protest during the day to show support for the victim and for justice.  Here in St. Pete there were protests but they weren't violent.  We have an African American police chief and a progressive mayor but the feeling is there is still brutality everywhere and it's the same anger escalated since Black Lives Matter started in the Obama administration.

Typically though Trump is not showing leadership, understanding and compassion and instead talks about the "thugs" and that with looting there will be shooting.

When I hear anger about their earlier peaceful protests in taking a knee it's "y'all had a problem with that" (meaning white people mostly) and not necessarily Trump alone.

But  he has zero credibility with black people and it's going to be highlighted.

Edited by Tweety

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13 hours ago, MunoRN said:

I don't really agree that Cuomo's inability to use time-travel to avoid these issues is a valid criticism.

The NY Dept of Health advisory notice that nursing homes must readmit patients it had sent to hospitals for treatment of COVID was on March 25th, The Javitz center wasn't ready to take patients until two weeks later, and the hospital ship was not taking patients (COVID or not) until April, and the tents in NYC parks weren't ready until after that.  

The requirement for nursing homes was as follows: "During this global health emergency, all NHs must comply with the expedited receipt of residents returning from hospitals to NHs".  These were patients returning to nursing homes that already had COVID patients, they weren't introducing COVID to these nursing homes.  Keeping these patients in the hospital despite no longer requiring hospital-level care would have further prevented hospitals from providing appropriate care to those who actually needed it, that's what leads to deaths.  

Those aren't the reasons Cuomo used for the order.  He said it was to prevent discrimination.

And then, Cuomo reversed his order a few weeks ago.  Well, well after those extra beds were available but not used.  And now said nursing homes are not to take Covid patients.

I am not sure where you got that they were only going to nursing homes who had covid patients already.  Every nursing home would deny they had any if that's all it took. And we know testing ability was not readily available then anyway.  So likely most patients in nursing homes weren't even tested until they were hospitalized.

Even if that was true, and it's not, is it better to have 2 or 3 covid patients, or 10?  Of course with more patients with it the greater risk of it spreading to others.

The only reason anyone here is defending that deadly decision is because he is a Democrat.  

 

 

 

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I agree, Tweety, this protesting is not about Trump. It is about white supremacy in our police departments across the country.  Of course, Trump is famous for his white supremacy sentiments and encouragement of violence toward and rough treatment of citizens in police custody. 

Unfortunately for DJT, most of us can remember what he said...

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This article is nine months old                                                                            White nationalists pervade law enforcement. We can't trust police to protect us from racist violence. They contribute to it

Fighting far right violence means continuing our fight for police accountability

White nationalists pervade law enforcement. There is a long history of the military, police and other authorities supporting, protecting or even being members of white supremacy groups. But it’s not just history. It was revealed last week that a black man in Michigan came upon KKK materials and Confederate flags in plain view while being shown a home for sale – the home of a police officer on the force for more than 20 years who shot and killed a black man in 2009 without consequence.

It’s a widespread pattern. As early as 2006, the FBI flagged it. Another FBI report in 2015, not covered nearly enough, indicated that “domestic terrorism investigations focused on militia extremists, white supremacist extremists, and sovereign citizen extremists often have identified active links to law enforcement officers”. (And that’s the FBI, which has its own history of white supremacy affinity groups.)

White nationalists connect through online networks and offline groups, and openly share tactics for infiltrating and influencing police departments, border patrol, the FBI and the military. That was the case for a Virginia police officer – assigned to a high school – who was revealed to be a longtime white nationalist and served as a recruiter for Identity Evropa, one of the groups behind the Charlottesville hate rallies and violence. He was not shy about his cover. In chat messages, he “discussed ways to downplay appearances of racism, while still promoting white nationalism”....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/21/police-white-nationalists-racist-violence

More to read:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/402521/doc-26-white-supremacist-infiltration.pdf

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/racism-torture-and-impunity-chicago/ 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/speeches/hard-truths-law-enforcement-and-race

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/

Quote

Cops Across The US Have Been Exposed Posting Racist And Violent Things On Facebook. Here's The Proof.

A review of the Facebook accounts of thousands of officers around the US — the largest database of its kind — found officers endorsing violence against Muslims, women, and criminal defendants.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilyhoerner/police-facebook-racist-violent-posts-comments-philadelphia

 

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