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President Trump National Scandal

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Did President Trump-Pence administration drop the ball?

  1. 1. Did President Trump-Pence administration drop the ball?

    • Yes
      15
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      2

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  • Poll closes on 03/02/2022 at 05:42 PM
6 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

I'm sorry you dont recall that. 

Do you have anything to say about what those physicians have to say about the collateral damage now?  Do you disagree with them, or think its not important?

This forum should be to share and discuss different points if view.

Unfortunately,  its often used  to disparage those with other perspectives.

 

 

You will find my response below (another post).

My memory is very good, dude.

Too good, sometimes.

Not all perspectives are worthy of consideration.

Prime example, the Trumpsters showing up armed to state houses.

Some people are okay with considering all perspectives, no matter how extremist.

I am not one of those folks.

Instead, I call them like I see them.

Rand Paul calling Andy Beshear a "dictator" is another point of view unworthy of consideration.

Sorry. I don't coddle.

 

Edited by Lil Nel

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39 minutes ago, Lil Nel said:

[...]

Why do you think the opinions of 600 physicians is important, but not THOUSANDS of former prosecutors?

[...]

THOUSANDS of former prosecutors?   

Quote

Nearly 2,000 former Justice Department and FBI officials on Monday signed an open letter strongly critical of Attorney General William Barr's decision to abandon the prosecution of Michael Flynn, calling the action "extraordinarily rare, if not unprecedented."

[...]

2,000 former DOJ, FBI officials call on Barr to resign over Michael Flynn case

 

Edited by chare

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28 minutes ago, chare said:

THOUSANDS of former prosecutors?   

 

Is 2000 not thousands, Chare?

In any event, over 1000 federal prosecutors signed a letter, which dude completely dismissed.

Yet, he is now all excited about a letter signed by 600 physicians.

Amusing. Nothing more than amusing.

From Newsweek, May 30, 2019:

Former Federal Prosecutors...That Trump Would Have Been Indicted If He Weren't President

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19 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

Yes, we all know she was fired.  She is the one saying her statements were misrepresented by the media.

Is she the one saying that or was it Governor DeSantis attempting to speak on her behalf?  

Following the comments that DeSantis tried to claim she told her supervisor were misrepresented, she stated she was terminated because she refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen".  So it doesn't appear as though it's the media that is misrepresenting her statements.

The State itself doesn't appear dispute her claims, stating she was terminated for refusing to abide by the input of her supervisors as to the data that should be going into the dashboards.  The way these tracking tools work is that they consolidate data reported by local health departments, if 'scientists' at the State level disagree with the data then the appropriate way to document that would be to add their views to the dataset in the form of addendums and qualifiers, altering the raw data itself to appear different than what it actually is isn't appropriate.  

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Wow.

Hope you all catch some of the coverage of Trump's trip to Michigan, today.

He was flailing all over the place!

It was a performance that only the most rabid Trumpster could applaud.

The rest of us; dumbfounded.

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20 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

Same with our democrat governor.  Our death count dropped by approximately 20ish % a few days ago.  This after a county coroner questioned publicly why a 35 year old that died of acute alcohol poisoning was counted as a covid death.

https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2020/05/16/colorado-changes-how-coronavirus-deaths-state-counted/5198485002/

There are no doubt inaccuracies in the number of reported deaths due to COVID-19, although it appears extremely unlikely that we've overcounted rather than undercounted.  

While there probably are examples of deaths that were attributed to COVID-19 that weren't this example is highly questionable, which is likely why the State health department disagrees with the coroner.

The coroner's claim is that a blood alcohol level of greater than 300 mg/dl is fatal, which is objectively false.  In non-alcoholics, a level of 400 has the potential to be fatal (per UpToDate) but they also note that in those with severe alcohol dependence a level of 300-500 mg/dl often will not even produce outward signs of intoxication, this is just the level required to prevent withdrawl symptoms.  I had an admit just yesterday who's alcohol level was 260 mg/dl after having a withdrawl seizure, which certainly isn't unheard of in alcoholics.  

So the coroner's argument is that a blood alcohol level of over 300 mg/dl will result in death from alcohol toxicity in every patient is a bit silly.

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20 hours ago, Lucylu71 said:

I'm perplexed as to why it's not understood by some that we can have mitigation efforts AND start to reopen more businesses.

Even if one supports keeping the stricter mitigation policies in effect, it seems that it would still be worthwhile to consider all the collateral damage that is happening, including what is concerning to the physicians.

The group you referenced isn't advocating for "mitigation efforts AND start to reopen more businesses".  They are advocating for a full and immediate stop to all mitigation efforts.  Reopening and scaling back mitigation efforts in a reasoned and methodical manner is what is already happening, this is what they oppose.

It should be noted this particular group is the result of a concerted effort by the Trump campaign to form a "Pro-Trump" group of Physicians, that they only managed to round up about 600 Pro-Trump Physicians out of the nearly 1 million Physicians in the US is telling.

To their points, there doesn't seems to be a general view that there aren't adverse effects that result from mitigating the spread of the virus, we're all in agreement on that point.  I have three young kids, I'm well aware of the effects closing schools has on them, although I don't agree with this group that there would be less harm by reopening schools now given the well established ability for highly transmissible viruses to spread through a community through children in school.

I think we all also agree that people have been avoiding hospitals due to the virus, in which case the best way to address that would seem to be what we're already doing, public awareness campaigns of the need and relative safety of continuing to seek medical care when needed.  I'm not sure that this group has really thought through how an inappropriately accelerated reopening would affect this problem.  People are reluctant to go the hospital now, but what happens when hospitals are actually overburdened, what happens when we're back to crisis standards where we're no longer treating really sick patients but rather switching them to comfort care, not because it's the appropriate choice but because with the resources it would take to help them would could help 4 or 5 other patients.  What happens when we're back to treating patients in tents in the parking lot.  You don't think that reality would cause people to avoid hospitals at least as much as they do now if not more?

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9 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

The group you referenced isn't advocating for "mitigation efforts AND start to reopen more businesses".  They are advocating for a full and immediate stop to all mitigation efforts.  Reopening and scaling back mitigation efforts in a reasoned and methodical manner is what is already happening, this is what they oppose.

It should be noted this particular group is the result of a concerted effort by the Trump campaign to form a "Pro-Trump" group of Physicians, that they only managed to round up about 600 Pro-Trump Physicians out of the nearly 1 million Physicians in the US is telling.

To their points, there doesn't seems to be a general view that there aren't adverse effects that result from mitigating the spread of the virus, we're all in agreement on that point.  I have three young kids, I'm well aware of the effects closing schools has on them, although I don't agree with this group that there would be less harm by reopening schools now given the well established ability for highly transmissible viruses to spread through a community through children in school.

I think we all also agree that people have been avoiding hospitals due to the virus, in which case the best way to address that would seem to be what we're already doing, public awareness campaigns of the need and relative safety of continuing to seek medical care when needed.  I'm not sure that this group has really thought through how an inappropriately accelerated reopening would affect this problem.  People are reluctant to go the hospital now, but what happens when hospitals are actually overburdened, what happens when we're back to crisis standards where we're no longer treating really sick patients but rather switching them to comfort care, not because it's the appropriate choice but because with the resources it would take to help them would could help 4 or 5 other patients.  What happens when we're back to treating patients in tents in the parking lot.  You don't think that reality would cause people to avoid hospitals at least as much as they do now if not more?

One of the organizers of the letter writing campaign is a Tea Party member.

In other words, an extremist.

It is the same group of folks protesting outside state houses.

Yet, dude, who dismissed the 2000 bipartisan former federal prosecutors point of view, is all over the view expressed by the far Right.

All I can do is smile, yawn and stretch.

Just another blatant attempt to interject Trumpster propaganda into a mainstream discussion.

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2 hours ago, Lil Nel said:

Is 2000 not thousands, Chare?

In any event, over 1000 federal prosecutors signed a letter, which dude completely dismissed.

Yet, he is now all excited about a letter signed by 600 physicians.

Amusing. Nothing more than amusing.

From Newsweek, May 30, 2019:

Former Federal Prosecutors...That Trump Would Have Been Indicted If He Weren't President

Again, you counter act with something totally unrelated to the topic which is of the 600 doctors which you evidently totally dismissed.  

 I know you think it's relavent and "nothing more than amusing".  But it's weak in my eyes.   

Carry on though as I know you will.

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6 hours ago, Lil Nel said:

I am very sorry about your friend, Tweety.

 

Heard from him today that his fever broke night before last and seems to be on the mend but feeling pretty crappy still.

Thanks.

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29 minutes ago, Tweety said:

Again, you counter act with something totally unrelated to the topic which is of the 600 doctors which you evidently totally dismissed.  

 I know you think it's relavent and "nothing more than amusing".  But it's weak in my eyes.   

Carry on though as I know you will.

And again, you refuse to hold a poster accountable for past posts.

Please, carry on, as I know you will.

The slate is not brand new with each post.

You may treat this poster that way, but I don't.

As I stated before, I don't coddle and I call it like I see it.

 

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33 minutes ago, Tweety said:

Again, you counter act with something totally unrelated to the topic which is of the 600 doctors which you evidently totally dismissed.  

 I know you think it's relavent and "nothing more than amusing".  But it's weak in my eyes.   

Carry on though as I know you will.

You are right, and I have stated very clearly, the opinions of right-wing extremists will always be dismissed by me.

Now, a bipartisan group might get my attention.

But these are right-wingers.

Nothing to see.

Ask yourself why the poster dismissed a bipartisan group of people, standing up for our nation's Constitution, yet embraces a group of right-wingers supporting his "open up" policies.

I am interested in what you come up with, Tweety.

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