Former Senior CIA Official's Thoughts on 911 - page 2

You should know that this man, Bill Christison was, prior to his retirement, a Senior Officer of the CIA, a National Intelligence Officer, and the Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and... Read More

  1. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Or how about this quote, by the OP link's author in an EDITORIAL to Al Jazeerah:

    http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%2...Christison.htm


    "These people, who can fairly be called Israeli loyalists, are now at all levels of (U.S.) government, from desk officers at the Defense Department to the deputy secretary level at both State and Defense, as well as on the National Security Council staff and in the vice president's office."

    See, those danged Jews, they've infiltrated the whole American Gov't. . . Pardon me while I go vomit.

    The editorial goes on to point out all the Israeli manipulations behind the American Gov't: Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Lewis 'Scooter' Libby, Douglas Feith, Peter Rodman, Dov Zackheim, David Wurmser, John Hannah, Elliot Abrams, Thomas Dine, William Kristol, Frank Gaffney, Jeane Kirkpatrick, Eugene Rostow, Michael Leedon, James Woolsley, Irving Moskowitz, etc. The article specifically mentions these American leaders by name, to an Arab Audience, as 'proof' that the U.S. Gov't is infiltrated by 'Pro-Zionists'.

    How about this quote, from the Al Jazeerha editorial above: "The dual loyalists in the Bush administration have given added impetus to the growth of a messianic strain of Christian fundamentalism that has allied itself with Israel in preparation for the so-called End of Days. These crazed fundamentalists see Israel's domination over all of Palestine as a necessary step toward fulfillment of the biblical Millennium, consider any Israeli relinquishment of territory in Palestine as a sacrilege, and view warfare between Jews and Arabs as a divinely ordained prelude to Armageddon. These right-wing Christian extremists have a profound influence on Bush and his administration, with the result that the Jewish fundamentalists working for the perpetuation of Israel's domination in Palestine and the Christian fundamentalists working for the Millennium strengthen and reinforce each other's policies in administration councils. The Armageddon that Christian Zionists seem to be actively promoting and that Israeli loyalists inside the administration have tactically allied themselves with raises the horrifying but very real prospect of an apocalyptic Christian-Islamic war. The neo-cons seem unconcerned, and Bush's occasional pro forma remonstrations against blaming all Islam for the sins of Islamic extremists do nothing to make this prospect less likely.

    These two strains of Jewish and Christian fundamentalism have dovetailed into an agenda for a vast imperial project to restructure the Middle East, all further reinforced by the happy coincidence of great oil resources up for grabs and a president and vice president heavily invested in oil. All of these factors * the dual loyalties of an extensive network of policymakers allied with Israel, the influence of a fanatical wing of Christian fundamentalists, and oil * probably factor in more or less equally to the administration's calculations on the Palestinian-Israeli situation and on war with Iraq. But the most critical factor directing U.S. policymaking is the group of Israeli loyalists: neither Christian fundamentalist support for Israel nor oil calculations would carry the weight in administration councils that they do without the pivotal input of those loyalists, who clearly know how to play to the Christian fanatics and undoubtedly also know that their own and Israel's bread is buttered by the oil interests of people like Bush and Cheney. This is where loyalty to Israel by government officials colors and influences U.S. policymaking in ways that are extremely dangerous."


    I am making a point. The quotes ARE inflammatory, but it speaks to the inflammatory nature of the author, not me.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 17, '06
  2. by   Roy Fokker
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    See, those danged Jews, they've infiltrated the whole American Gov't. . .

    Pardon me while I go vomit.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    "Israel loyalist" doesn't have to mean "Jew".

    If I use your logic, I can also say that "Criticism of Israel is anti-semitic/jew hatred".

    Far as I know, the only people who keep harping about ZOG are neo-nazi crackpots.
  3. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from Roy Fokker
    "Israel loyalist" doesn't have to mean "Jew".

    If I use your logic, I can also say that "Criticism of Israel is anti-semitic/jew hatred".

    Far as I know, the only people who keep harping about ZOG are neo-nazi crackpots.
    You're faster than I am Roy!

    Seems too obvious but I guess not.
    Criticising policies and actions on the Israeli government are no more antisemetic than criticising the policies and action of the United States are anti American.

    ...What I would like to argue, though, is that many of us have gone from these admirable motivations to a mistaken conclusion: that to support the Jewish people, we must back the Israeli government...
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/carson/carson7.html
    ----------------------------------
    Many believe that American Jews unanimously and unconditionally support the Israeli government. That what we learned from the Holocaust is to shoot first and ask questions later. That our commitment to justice and equal rights is a quaint feature of our past.
    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...n/15250169.htm
  4. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from spacenurse
    ...For more than two years after the attacks, officials with NORAD and the FAA provided inaccurate information about the response to the hijackings in testimony and media appearances. Authorities suggested that U.S. air defenses had reacted quickly, that jets had been scrambled in response to the last two hijackings and that fighters were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 if it threatened Washington....
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080101300.html
    Whether this is true or not simply doesn't matter. The world isn't the same AFTER 9/11 as it was before.

    If the military HAD shot down these airliners, before we knew that terrorists would use them as WMD, the American Public would not have tolerated it.

    In fact, isn't one of the 'conspiracy' claims, that we shot down United 93. You can't have it both ways: It's a conspiracy because we could have shot the planes down, but one of the conspiracies is we did just that!

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  5. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Roy Fokker
    "Israel loyalist" doesn't have to mean "Jew".

    If I use your logic, I can also say that "Criticism of Israel is anti-semitic/jew hatred".

    Far as I know, the only people who keep harping about ZOG are neo-nazi crackpots.
    You're right, semantics don't equal bigotry. But, CONTENT DOES. Read the editorial to Al Jazeehah I linked.

    It's not 'criticism' that I'm pointing out: it's conspiracy mongering. . .

    The author isn't merely 'critical' of 'pro-Israeli' influences: he conspiratorially links them to a 'scheme' to usurp the foreign policy of the U.S. And, he does so to an Arab Audience. See my link to 'true believer syndrome'. You don't need 'proof' in such circumstances. The accusation itself is 'proof' for those that wish to believe.

    And THAT directly impacts the OP link's writer's views on THIS thread, and 9/11 conspiracies, as well.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 17, '06
  6. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Whether this is true or not simply doesn't matter. The world isn't the same AFTER 9/11 as it was before.

    If the military HAD shot down these airliners, before we knew that terrorists would use them as WMD, the American Public would not have tolerated it.

    In fact, isn't one of the 'conspiracy' claims, that we shot down United 93. You can't have it both ways: It's a conspiracy because we could have shot the planes down, but one of the conspiracies is we did just that!

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    It doesn't matter whether the 9/11 commission was told the truth?

    http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    btw, I'm not a 'pro-Zionist'. I BELIEVE that Israel purposely sunk the USS Liberty during the 7 day war. I think they are fair-weather allies. (See, THAT'S a criticism.)

    I think the U.S. gov't has NO business trying to be both an arbiter in the region AND an ally of Israel. But to say our gov't is 'Pro-Zionist' because of secret cabals and back-channel manipulation is silly. To the extent our gov't is 'pro-Israeli', it is because our voters have voted in 'pro-Israeli' politicians.

    You need look no further than the U.S. political responses to the current conflict to know that such policies are 'front door' policies and not 'back door' manipulations.

    And, while I might be a 'right wing religious neocon', the views about promoting the completion of the 'end of days' is, to quote Logan, bunkam.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 17, '06
  8. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from spacenurse
    It doesn't matter whether the 9/11 commission was told the truth?

    http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01
    The 9/11 commission was a political body. Of course their goal wasn't to tell the truth. Their goal was to conduct a 'political' show. That, they did.

    I no sooner put stock in the 9/11 commission then I do the Warren Report.

    Call me a conspiracy theorist, LOL, but I don't believe in the Occam's Razor of 'magical bullets'.

    I read this link. If anything, it points out the mess in trying to sort things out. If anything, it shoots down (no pun intended) the conspiracy theory that the U.S. COULD have prevented 9/11 by shooting down those planes. Heck, they couldn't find their own bottoms during the whole mess - using both hands and a fighter 'stick'.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 17, '06
  9. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    The 9/11 commission was a political body. Of course their goal wasn't to tell the truth. Their goal was to conduct a 'political' show. That, they did.

    I no sooner put stock in the 9/11 commission then I do the Warren Report.

    Call me a conspiracy theorist, LOL, but I don't believe in the Occam's Razor of 'magical bullets'.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    I am confused. Is it OK for the government to lie to the American people?

    I don't get what you mean by magic bullet either.
    I do think sometimes finding the truth is complicated. A nursing example would be, "Why is my patient agitated and/or confused" It could be one of many causes or a combination.

    "The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002, is chartered to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks...."
    http://www.9-11commission.gov/
  10. by   pickledpepperRN
    Alex Jones first reported on this back in May when Rudolph Giuliani let the details of it slip in his testimony to the 9/11 Commission. FEMA arrived in New York on September 10th to set up a command post located at Pier 29 under the auspices of a 'biowarfare exercise scheduled for September 12. This explains why Tom Kenney of FEMA's National Urban Search and Rescue Team, told Dan Rather of CBS News that FEMA had arrived in New York on the night of September 10th.
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/fema_clip.mp3

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    bizarre coincidence
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...e-drill-_x.htm
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/agency_p...a_building.htm
    http://www.boston.com/news/packages/...e_exercise.htm
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Tapes showing people were not certain if the reports of highjacked planes were real or a drill:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01
  11. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from spacenurse
    I am confused. Is it OK for the government to lie to the American people?

    I don't get what you mean by magic bullet either.
    I do think sometimes finding the truth is complicated. A nursing example would be, "Why is my patient agitated and/or confused" It could be one of many causes or a combination.

    "The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission), an independent, bipartisan commission created by congressional legislation and the signature of President George W. Bush in late 2002, is chartered to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks...."
    http://www.9-11commission.gov/
    It wasn't independent (Jamie Gorelick was ON the committee, author of 'the wall' between prosecution and interdiction, after all!)

    It wasn't terribly bi-partisan, either.

    No, I don't think that the gov't has the right to lie to the American people. But, I DO think that politics is politics. The old phrases goes, "There's your side, my side, and then, the truth."

    I DO believe that the 9/11 report is a classic example of 'your side, my side' but that does NOT mean the truth is in the balance.

    But, that's the nature of politics.

    The operative word isn't 'truth'; it's 'spin'.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  12. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from spacenurse
    Alex Jones first reported on this back in May when Rudolph Giuliani let the details of it slip in his testimony to the 9/11 Commission. FEMA arrived in New York on September 10th to set up a command post located at Pier 29 under the auspices of a 'biowarfare exercise scheduled for September 12. This explains why Tom Kenney of FEMA's National Urban Search and Rescue Team, told Dan Rather of CBS News that FEMA had arrived in New York on the night of September 10th.
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/fema_clip.mp3

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    bizarre coincidence
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...e-drill-_x.htm
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/agency_p...a_building.htm
    http://www.boston.com/news/packages/...e_exercise.htm
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Tapes showing people were not certain if the reports of highjacked planes were real or a drill:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01
    Do I find it a bizarre coincidence that an agency 'four miles from the runway of Washington Dulles Airport' would conduct an emergency drills regarding accidental aircraft crashes?

    No.

    If I told you that the gov't was conducting an exercise regarding car crashes on the SAME day somebody was in a car crash, would THAT be a conspiracy?

    Hundreds of gov't agencies mean dozens of 'exercises', on a daily basis. To match any two together is neither correlation, nor causation.

    For example, did you know, that if you put 23 people in a room together, the odds are 50/50 that 2 share the same birthday. If you put 69 people in a room together, those odds raise to a virtual certainty. http://noca.leaver.org/birthday/other.html

    Does that mean it's a 'bizarre coincidence' that somebody has the same birthday as somebody else, or does that mean that those that would find such coincidences 'bizarre' simply don't understand the mathematics behind coincidences: the larger the number of events 'in play', the more likely, by increasingly exponential factors, that a 'coincidence' occurs. . .

    Let me give you a 'real world' example. When I was stationed in Turkey, in 1990, we routinely conducted exercises. A current theme was that 'dictator of country red invades country blue' and how that affected OUR threat indices. Does THAT mean that there is a 'bizarre coincidence' between those exercises in 1990 and SH's invasion of Kuwait in 1991? Does that mean that we had 'inside knowledge'? Or, does it simply mean that 1 out of dozens of scenarios actually happened somewhere, sometime.

    Yes, it's an interesting coincidence. Maybe, even, 'bizarre'. But, to ascribe nefarious correlations to such coincidences is, in itself, 'bizarre'.

    As far as tapes with people wondering if 9/11 is an event or a drill, most agencies and military conduct SO many exercises, I would think this a valid question any time, and day, without regard to what exercises might actually be in play.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Aug 17, '06
  13. by   pickledpepperRN
    It was simulating airplanes crashing into a building.
    Anyway, this has been fun but I'm going to sleep.

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