"The fight's on!!" The Defense dept. vs. the State department !! WOWEE !! - page 6

Anybody wanta make bets?? In one corner we got Secretary of State Colin Powell ..OPPOSING.. the Secretary of Defense Rumsfield...Backing Rumsfeld and siding with him..President Bush...This could be... Read More

  1. by   canoehead
    You are taking bobbi's word for that? I think he is FOS.
  2. by   nurs4kids
    Ferg & Canoe,
    I remember right after 9-11, watching a canadian talk show and I was shocked. I mentioned this to Tracy back then. Canadians were NOT backing us like "family" then either. The general opinion was very anti-american, very "you got what you deserved". Sooooo, I'm not so sure about us being the big bad guy in this whole scenario you are discussing.

    I have no knowledge about the illegal tax placed on your softwoods; I"m really ignorant when it comes to international trading, etc. However, could it be an attempt by our government to save OUR jobs? I dunno, just wondering.

    Anyhow, after watching that program that I speak of above, I got the feeling (and continue to have) that Canada isn't really with us by choice, rather because they have no choice given the geographical proximity.
  3. by   fergus51
    Tracy, what you saw was a talk show, not our gov't speakers and it certainly wasn't representative of all of Canada. They needed to make a good show. The Canadian gov't has been nothing but supportive, and the vast majority of Canadians have been too. I agree there was a certain amount of blame on US foreign policy. I do not think anyone felt the victims "got what they deserved". I don't want anyone to think that anyone here revelled in the loss of life suffered by innocent people. I think I should add that Americans who were stranded here were housed and fed by Canadians (even when the stranded Americans outnumbered the Canadians), hospitals in Ontario cleared their OR time immediately after in case there were any survivors in need of treatment and I know of at least one urban rescue group that went from BC to help out in the rescue work, not to mention other volunteers. Sooo...yeah some of us spoke bitterly, but I don't think there was another country that identifies with Americans more or wanted to help as much... I think the people who felt the most slighted were those that housed Americans when they were stranded in the Maritimes. It wasn't a huge news item out here.

    As for the illegal tax, yes they are doing it to save jobs. BUT- you can't sign a free trade agreement and then institute protectionist policies (that's why the tax is illegal, they did it before). The Canadian gov't can't do it to protect our jobs either. That's the kind of thing that gives America the reputation of being a bully. My main annoyance at this is that the American gov't dropped sanctions against PAKISTAN!!! We may not always be America's lap dog, but we are certainly a lot nicer than Pakistan...
  4. by   fergus51
    There was a discussion about ordinary Canadians response to the 9-11 on the Canadian thread. I thought I should point it out just to show you that we aren't all evil American haters... It was in Gander that the Americans outnumbered the locals 2 to 1 and they were still billeted with local families
  5. by   fergus51
    Originally posted by canoehead
    You are taking bobbi's word for that? I think he is FOS.
  6. by   fergus51
    Full of S&&T...
  7. by   nurs4kids
    I know I called it a "talk show", when in actuallity it was a "town meeting" (I remembered this after I signed off the other night). I'm sure it wasn't a good indicator for all of Canada, but it sure left a sour taste in my mouth.

    I agree it isn't right, or fair for our gov't to impose illegal laws just to preserve our jobs. However, I wish American's were forced to put their money into the American economy a little more, and into foreign products a little less (yes, this is from someone who drives a foreign car and loves foreign electronics). Our desire for foreign products is destroying the foundation from which America was built. The Japanese and Germans have been wonderful about bringing their corporations to America and employing American citizens to build their products; therefore giving back to those who support their product. I'd like to see more of this and less of our monies going over the line. We can't feed our families OR buy foreign products if we don't have jobs. The whole idea of this war being based around oil may be true, but is ridiculous when we have tons of oil sitting in Alaska.

    I don't understand why we dropped the sanctions against Pakistan, either. I'm sure it was a political move and probably issued more as a "good faith gesture" than anything.

    You're right, I feel alot warmer when I think of Canada than when I think of Pakistan. That's like comparing a fuzzy kitten to a pit viper; there is no comparison.
  8. by   fergus51
    I like the kitten analogy... And, I completely understand why it would leave a sour taste in your mouth. Especially when the program was done so soon after the tragedy. I think that was a completely valid point.

    I also completely agree with the need to buy local, the free trade agreement was a big issue when it first went through. I think we don't have much to worry about when you consider the fact that a HUGE number of companies here are American owned anyways (the money often doesn't stay here). It's just the changing of the rules to suit America that gives it a worse image than it deserves. But it's not like Americans have much to worry about when it comes to Canadians anyways. What would we do if we were really angry....? A snowball fight...? When the cheese sticks were banned American companies lost access to a 10 million $ market. The softwood lumer tariff will cost our province alone billions. That's why I have to kind of laugh at how Canadians want to be tough, but we very seldom are...politically anyways....
  9. by   fergus51
    oh, and I got this by email from a friend today just to show some Good ol' North American solidarity!

    Subject: United We Stand!

    The President of the United States, George W. Bush, has asked that all Americans and Canadians unite together in a common cause to root out terrorists hiding in our community. Since the Taliban cannot stand nudity and consider it a sin to see a naked woman that is not their wife, on Saturday afternoon at 2:00 p.m. EST, all North American women are asked to walk out of their house completely naked to help weed out any neighborhood
    terrorists. Circling your block for one hour is recommended for this
    anti-terrorist effort. All men should position themselves in lawn chairs in front of your house to prove that you think it's OK to see other women nude.
    (Since they do not approve of alcohol, a cold six-pack at your side is further proof of your anti-Taliban sentiment.) Names and addresses of non-participants should be sent to CIA Headquarters, Langley, Virginia.

    The United States of America appreciates your efforts to root out terrorists and applauds your efforts.

    I'll be out ans I expect you all to do your patriotic duty as well!:chuckle
    Last edit by fergus51 on Feb 6, '02
  10. by   canoehead
    Jeez, let me get out the bikini and beer.

    I want to echo fergus- I DON'T think that the victims of 9-11 deserved what they got. I don't think anyone deserved the horrible events of that day, and haven't heard anyone from Canada or elsewhere with that opinion.

    I predict some very moving ceremonies and tributes on both sides of the border on 9-11-02. I don't know how families in NYC were able to pick up and go on. If I worked in a tall office building I sincerely don't think I would have had the courage to go back to work after that day.