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Is it important for elected leaders to be truthful?

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Trump denies he used vulgarity to describe Haiti, African countries

In bluntly vulgar language, President Donald Trump questioned why the U.S. would accept more immigrants from Haiti and "s---hole countries" in Africa rather than places like Norway...

Trump denies he used vulgarity to describe Haiti, African countries | 89.3 KPCC

President Trump denied using that language.

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Never said anything derogatory about Haitians other than Haiti is, obviously, a very poor and troubled country. Never said "take them out." Made up by Dems. I have a wonderful relationship with Haitians. Probably should record future meetings - unfortunately, no trust!

5:48 AM - 12 Jan 2018

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Video and social media have been the saving grace since Trump took office. Can't wait to see what's printed in future history books.

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I fear that honesty and accountability are now partisan issues for conservatives. Very few of them will even address the unprecedented level of deceit, deception, misinformation, and outright lies that are peddled by the White House. None of them seem interested in holding anyone beyond liberals accountable for anything.

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I fear that honesty and accountability are now partisan issues for conservatives. Very few of them will even address the unprecedented level of deceit, deception, misinformation, and outright lies that are peddled by the White House. None of them seem interested in holding anyone beyond liberals accountable for anything.

It's a partisan issue alright, but it's laughable to suggest liberals are superior to conservatives in holding one of their own accountable.

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It's a partisan issue alright, but it's laughable to suggest liberals are superior to conservatives in holding one of their own accountable.

Okay....well seeing how a so-called conservative sits in the White House, do you think honesty and accountability are important? I feel like truth is a fluid concept for DJT, that it is what ever he happens to be thinking at the moment and what ever suits his purpose.

For instance, in the past week he tweeted that he hoped Republicans would support the Goodlatte bill on immigration, and then a few days later he tweeted that he never asked them to. He proclaims the press to be the enemy of the people and then after 5 journalists are killed states "journalists... should be free from the fear of being violently attacked while doing their jobs."

And how about his terrific deal with North Korea? You know, the country that is still working on their nuclear weapons program despite pronouncements about a deal that lets us sleep at night?

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I think all sides will always claim the other sides are less honest as a matter of opinion, but if factual vs non-factual statements are something that can be objectively measured, and by whatever metric you prefer it's pretty clear that Trump is well above average when it comes to the number of lies per day, week, month, etc. Obama certainly lied at times, but it wasn't a routine daily occurrence as it has become with Trump (even though it's a Sunday and he's on vacation, Trump managed to get his daily lie in today, which was that Democrat's have proposed "open borders" despite the fact that no such proposal or anything that could even be misinterpreted that way has been made.

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It's a partisan issue alright, but it's laughable to suggest liberals are superior to conservatives in holding one of their own accountable.

I bet that's exactly what the weather is in the conservative information bubble.

Let me just mention the name of Senator Franken. He resigned for behavior that looks innocent compared to Trump or some of the reprobates on the other side of the aisle.

Meanwhile a lying, cheating, conman with a preference for walking into teen girl locker room unannounced sits in the white house and no conservative dare say a thing about his immoral character. Trump lies with impunity on a daily basis, members of his cabinet lie to us regularly.

Au this point, as Republicans stand silent on these matters, the GOP has no legitimate complaint about Democrats.

IMHO

Edited by toomuchbaloney

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Okay....well seeing how a so-called conservative sits in the White House, do you think honesty and accountability are important? I feel like truth is a fluid concept for DJT, that it is what ever he happens to be thinking at the moment and what ever suits his purpose.

For instance, in the past week he tweeted that he hoped Republicans would support the Goodlatte bill on immigration, and then a few days later he tweeted that he never asked them to. He proclaims the press to be the enemy of the people and then after 5 journalists are killed states "journalists... should be free from the fear of being violently attacked while doing their jobs."

And how about his terrific deal with North Korea? You know, the country that is still working on their nuclear weapons program despite pronouncements about a deal that lets us sleep at night?

Politicians have and always will lie. Our political process usually doesn't lead to the best people qualified being the ones who end up in congress or the WH. It's up to us to decide what is true and not true about political figures, and weigh that against what issues are important to us. Not a great spot for us to be in.

Having said that, what is more disturbing to me then dishonest politicians is the way the press tries to influence us. How are we supposed to decide what the truth is?

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I bet that's exactly what the weather is in the conservative information bubble.

Let me just mention the name of Senator Franken. He resigned for behavior that looks innocent compared to Trump or some of the reprobates on the other side of the aisle.

Meanwhile a lying, cheating, conman with a preference for walking into teen girl locker room unannounced sits in the white house and no conservative dare say a thing about his immoral character. Trump lies with impunity on a daily basis, members of his cabinet lie to us regularly.

Au this point, as Republicans stand silent on these matters, the GOP has no legitimate complaint about Democrats.

IMHO

And if there was any chance Franken would have been replaced by a Republican, he still would have resigned because it's all about being accountable. Lol!

Edited by SC_RNDude
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Politicians have and always will lie. Our political process usually doesn't lead to the best people qualified being the ones who end up in congress or the WH. It's up to us to decide what is true and not true about political figures, and weigh that against what issues are important to us. Not a great spot for us to be in.

Having said that, what is more disturbing to me then dishonest politicians is the way the press tries to influence us. How are we supposed to decide what the truth is?

I look at several sources, especially those who can provide proof in the form of actual documentation, or have at least 2 reputable sources.

Yes, I am skeptical of anonymous sources, or the phrase "it's been said". I also tend to believe sworn testimony.

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And if there was any chance Franken would have been replaced by a Republican, he still would have resigned because it's all about being accountable. Lol!

That's a really nice assumption that feeds your partisan narrative. Everyone can see what social conservatives consider accountability in their ranks. It's pretty disingenuous to support a party with no accountability while simultaneously dismissing the attempts at accountability by the political opposition.

How can smart people be so blinded by ignorant rhetoric?

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Musings of an outside observer.....

And if there was any chance Franken would have been replaced by a Republican, he still would have resigned because it's all about being accountable. Lol!

Oh, please. Remember the Alabama Special Election? When multiple women alleged that candidate Moore was guilty of unwanted sexual advances and sexual assaults, some Republican leaders called for Moore to withdraw and proposed shifting their support to a write-in REPUBLICAN candidate. However, Trump chose to reaffirm his support for Moore.

The motto of the the Party of Trump seems to be the more debauched and depraved, the better. If they'd managed to unite around another Republican write-in candidate instead, one not marred by multiple allegations regarding sexual misconduct involving in several cases teenage girls, then Doug Jones might not have gotten his 1.7 point win.

I'm convinced that some of his votes came from Republicans too disgusted by the allegations to be able to hold their nose and vote for the R candidate, and yet others Republican voters probably refrained from voting at all.

I suspect that by endorsing such an unpalatable candidate, the administration managed to suppress Republican voter turnout, while simultaneoulsy galvanizing the Democratic voters, and I think it's only fitting that the Republicans were punished for their lack of moral backbone.

It's a partisan issue alright, but it's laughable to suggest liberals are superior to conservatives in holding one of their own accountable.

Oh, please x 2. Al Franken's already been mentioned. When Maxine Waters encouraged anti-administration protests, many Democrats criticized her. When comedienne Michelle Wolf made some rather stinging jokes at this years White House correspondents' dinner, aimed at members of the Trump administration, many members of what you probably refer to as the liberal media were falling over themselves criticizing Wolf.

It seems to me that the majority of Trumps' opponents are obsessed with maintaining a level of decorum and civility, a show of respect that I in all honesty don't think the current administration has done anything to deserve. They seem to energetically police themselves and ardently condemn the transgressor when "one of their own" steps "over the line".

I'm not now and would never advocate violence, but it is my firm belief that when you have people who don't even try to be decent and civil, leading a country, there is no reason to hold the "populace" to a much higher standard than what you demand of its leaders.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to verbally protest those who have the power to make decisions that profoundly affects and changes people's lives. I would definitely be out protesting if what's currently happening in your country, were to happen in mine. Peacefully for sure, but loudly.

Politicians have and always will lie.

While it's probably true that most politicians fudge the issues sometimes, I can't recall ever seeing such a torrential outpouring of falsehoods. The impression I get, is an eruption of the magnitude of hyperemesis gravidarum, so forceful that it leaves the spectator feeling slightly concussed.

Having said that, what is more disturbing to me then dishonest politicians is the way the press tries to influence us.

Are you referring to your state-run media? It is rather shocking and really more Moscow and Pyongyang, than something you'd expect from the U.S. A complete and utter failure to hold those in power accountable. It's really rather sickening to behold the shameless ***kissing, the blind loyalty to power and the enthusiatic dedication with which they act as a spineless, unquestioning megaphone and promote both gray area unthruths and outright lies.

How are we supposed to decide what the truth is?

You fact-check. You look at several REPUTABLE sources and try to glean as much information as you can. You step out of your comfort zone and the warm feeling that confirmation bias can offer, and you are open to questioning your preconceived notions. When someone tries to sell you a narrative that's forever changing, evolving and morphing; you should start becoming suspicious.

If you look out your window and see that the sky is blue, but you are told by three different members of the administration, that today and all over your country, the sky is forest green, checkered and candy-striped respectively, you should start to suspect something's not quite kosher. Not only won't anyone agree with what is objectively observable outside your window, but they can't even agree amongst themselves. That's a clear indication that they are not telling the truth.

OP, to answer your question. Truth matters. And I think that every democracy should expect and demand that their elected leaders adhere to the highest standard.

Edited by macawake

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