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Interesting article about God

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You are reading page 6 of Interesting article about God. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

yes, the clover, is one of many ways that christians find to say the 3 gods in their holy book, are really only one god. I am very familiar with that, and with other phrases, and slogans about how the 3 gods with different personalities, different names, and different roles, who can be present simultaneously, and even speak TO each other, are really, just one (1) god in their opinion.

I do not necessarily even understand the aversion to polytheism, at all, seems no better or worse than monotheism, but, for whatever reason, it's hard to find a chrstian who even seems aware one could logically deduce that the bible describes 3 separate gods by name. For some reason, some *seem* to feel that is a "put down", but, i don't understand why 3 gods seem less desirable to them.

also, most christians seem to focus on their own persecution, this is oftne HUGE focus fro christians (whether real or not)

it's less common to ever hear one discuss the persecution DONE by christians, their role in many of the world's darkest moments, from the slave trade, to the crusades, times when christianity WAS the law of the land, (shiver!) the protection of pedophile priests, long long long long list of horrific abuses,a very horrible past. That church has very bloody history. Even to this day, there are christians still persecuting others.

the connection of Washington DC's "The Family" (band of religious republicans who live together in DC) to the Ugnandan govt's murder of gays in Uganda, is an interesting and horrible story. It's very current, too...like last year maybe.

Christians can still use their bible laws to oppress others. They are about 80% or more of the population, and are over 99% of our elected officials.

We don't have an "aversion"; we don't "*seem*" to feel that anyone is putting us down. You are twisting to your own perception what YOU think we think. We are aware that some people deduce that the bible is talking about 3 separate Gods by name but we simply do not agree with it because, for us, that is not what the bible says.

As to Christians not talking about the more unfortunate and wrong happenstances done in the name of God, you are wrong about that as well. We DO discuss it. We learn about it in church. We learn about it in Christian History class or World Religion class. It has been discussed at length here on AN.

I have no problem with you discussing your opinion about religions, "gods", etc. But I do wish you would stop ascribing thoughts, feelings, actions to the rest of us.

Thanks.

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We don't have an "aversion"; we don't "*seem*" to feel that anyone is putting us down. You are twisting to your own perception what YOU think we think. We are aware that some people deduce that the bible is talking about 3 separate Gods by name but we simply do not agree with it because, for us, that is not what the bible says.

As to Christians not talking about the more unfortunate and wrong happenstances done in the name of God, you are wrong about that as well. We DO discuss it. We learn about it in church. We learn about it in Christian History class or World Religion class. It has been discussed at length here on AN.

I have no problem with you discussing your opinion about religions, "gods", etc. But I do wish you would stop ascribing thoughts, feelings, actions to the rest of us.

Thanks.

you are right, the multiple objections by christians, on this thread and other threads, who seem almost offended by the notion i think the bible might be describing 3 gods, could be being misconstrued.

but, i think this remark, from a christian, might be true, too:

//"Christians are accused of worshiping multiple gods because of the trinity. So we tend to be a bit defensive about that."//

You guys are not not not the first christians i have interacted with, it is not at all uncommon for many christians to seem offended by someone saying they have 'gods'. If you, Spidey's Mom, are not offended by it, please forgive me for lumping you in with many other christains who do seem upset to hear the word "gods". I apologize if you felt included when i should, instead, refer to "some" christians feel upset to hear the word "gods", as your post proves, it's not "all" christians!! THANKS!.

but really how many gods a person has, is the least of my concerns about promoting critical thinking skills or logic.

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I like St. Patrick's view of the Trinity. The clover.

Three leaves of one stem supplying the growth for the entire.

Lots of groups are persecuted. Some religious, some without religion as a basis for the persecution. While I am empathetic to the plight of athiests, I am more prone to think about those who are and have been persecuted for specific relgious beliefs. We see it daily all over the world. My DS is in missions work. I have to keep begging him not to go to some countries where his life expectancy is little longer than the plane ride to get there.

He and I do not agree about religion either. It is a hot button topic for many. We keep the discussions about religion in the relgion and ethics part of AN for good reason, I believe. It tends to remain a more courtious discourse about personal and connected beliefs. A majority of the posters seem to be Christian, not unusual since we have more people from areas of high Christian habitation. We also have a range of religions presented and each one has someting to teach all of us. Some of our Pagan members teach me the most, as I knew nothing about that religion.

I would love to see a broader base of religions represented. There are so many that I know little about and this is a safe place to ask questions. Most of us do not come with all the answers.

btw, slightly off topic, but, many muslims do not feel as free to post about their religion to a largely american group, such as AN. I have a fairly diverse and international group of pals in real life, and in america, if one is not christian, there can be concerns about being rejected or even discriminated against.

i do interact on multiple atheist websites, which are VERY global, (America really IS one of THE most religious of all nations) and you all would be STUNNED at how many muslims are actually secret atheists!! I have learned so so much about other religions, and have multiple atheist ex-muslim penpals, whose only outlet to discuss their views, is online. They could be killed if it is known they are atheists.

The stories they tell me!

so, next time you see photos of muslims, do know, some of them actually are secret atheists. This idea pleases me.

Many muslims in USA, who are practicing muslims (i have some pals who are practicing (kinda) muslims. I have gone to many a fine goat-roast with them. I'd love to see the persecution of muslims, or the suspicion of anyone who appears to be muslim, reduced.

also, to your other point, yes, if someone of one religion

goes to a country where their religion is NOT the religon in power,

there is often discrimination, property damage,

or even violence. Ask any muslim in America....

Edited by somenurse

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For me, as a teenager, I felt like something was missing, like I wasn't complete.

One day, in the mid 80's, I went to church with a family member. What I heard that day, it all seemed to make sense. Jesus, loving me, dying for my sins. I am not perfect, no one is. But as a Christian, I believe that we are sinners, saved by grace. That Jesus died on the cross for our sins, a final act that tore the curtain of distance between us as humanity, to God. That I as a human being can have a personal relationship with God and with Jesus because He is my savior. I have Joy in my heart, I have love. This is what works for me. I do not condemn anyone else for havng their own opinions or beliefs. I have faith, (I know...that I know..that I know) that God is real, that the Jesus of the bible is real. This is what I believe and what I live by. I feel like I have had a good life, have dealt with hard times in my life through these beliefs and what I feel is a relationship, not a religion. Some may call it a crutch. When one is broken or hurt, maybe they need a crutch, but I am thankful that I went to church that day years ago as a teeneager. I am glad I am a Christian. :)

Your post seems representative of a very common feeling shared amongst many christians. I am very very familiar with the ideas you describe. there is zero objective evidence for any of the things you believe, but, i'd be first one to stand up for your right to believe them just the same,

but, i'm also one to encourage questioning if any of this is necessary for good life, or even makes logical sense.

I am not entirely sure that a 'relationship' with the gods, is actually a 'healthy' relationship, i feel that is open for debate:

Is the Christian “Relationship with God” Healthy?

I feel attitude is about 90% of everything. I feel focusing on good things, can make us feel better. I think most christians see their gods as 'good' gods, and i agree, focusing on things one thinks are 'good', can indeed, help a person feel better. I AGREE!!!!

I do not agree it is the only way to achieve nirvana, nor the only way to feel better, but, i do agree, focusing on good things, could make a person feel better.

I think it is debatable if the gods described in the bible, are actually 'good' gods, (?) but, if one is told they are by most everyone they know, from birth on, and questioning is mostly suppressed in both small and large ways, the idea can be accepted more easily.

There are many good things to focus on, many ways to reduce stress or solve problems, but, many christians are almost hypnotized from birth on, that the best way to feel better is to focus on their gods, that doing so, makes them a 'better' person, and makes their life 'better'. who wouldn't want to be one of "good guys"??

They are often praised and supported for focusing on their gods, or even mentioning their gods, and almost invariably, they can anticipate praise for stating they have 'faith'.

Also, at the risk of offending of anyone, but, if someone is told,

by everyone they know or meet, from birth on, that worshipping "Purple box" is the only way they'll ever feel good, that can have an impact on some people. If everytime the person sees beauty---sunsets, rainbows, the sun streaming through clouds, etc,

or sees anything good, they are told, it is a sign from Purple Box that they are loved.

An association is developed, between sunsets, etc, and the Purple Box, it could become almost pavlovian reflex, "Ah, a beautiful sunset, Purple box is signalling to me" etc.

Whenver something good happens, "See? Purple box came through for you!" or "heard your prayers" Or "is good god" etc.

If this person, sees and hears about thsoe who don't worship Purple box, will suffer eternal torture, and will never ever get to see their dead grandparents again, that THAT prize only goes to those who follow Purple box, this could add to the idea, when done almost continuously, in overt and subtle ways, their entire life, by almost everyone they know.

If anyone who does not worship Purple box is known about, the young Purple box fan might hear discussions of how bad their family feels for that one person who doesn't worship PB, and how that is probably why that person who doesn't worship Purple box has had hard times, or how "lost" this nonbeliever is. Sometimes, we see what we are told is there.

Those who don't worship Purple box are sometimes held out as examples in family or church discussions of lives wasted/mistaken people/"arrogant" people/"angry" people/people destined for eternal torture, "can never be happy" etc. (who'd want to be THAT person!?)

there are multiple books, tv shows, movies, about Purple box. All the elected officials of the person's govt, honor Purple Box. tons of lovely phrases and slogans about Purple Box, gorgeous buldings, songs, holidays, artifacts and symbols, most everywhere the person goes.

The family, the community, multiple tv channels and the person's large church might tell the person If only they'd worship Purple box, they could be happy, cuz, pretty much they all feel that only those who 'know' Purple box can ever truly be happy and fulfilled. Our minds ARE our most powerful part, and our attitudes are 90% of everything, imo.

so There is, admittedly, a very strong lure there. Almost irresistible, plus, there is the "community" there, who will see them as 'good' person, if they worship Purple box. It takes a rare person to not buy this, but, some won't.

If anytime the person has questions about something about Purple Box, they are told, "ah, you'll find out after you are dead", etc, or "only Purple Box knows why this here disaster happened, you are not smart enough to see the wisdom of Purple box's ways"

or "Purple Box wanted the parents to pray more, or achieve emotional growth from suffering, is why their baby died, so they could become closer to Purple Box." or "everything happens for a reason" even if they can only makes guesses at the reason, etc etc.

Or "Purple box just wanted to get your attention, is why you are now paralyzed" (i've actually heard that one, in ICU..)

Many many many people would be able to speak on behalf of Purple Box, as if they are different from other humans, as if they have some inside scoop on what Purple Box wants or needs.

AND if the person is much accepted and valued for any sign of accepting Purple Box,

well,

if these things happened,

I feel there is a chance we could all be worshiping Purple box. Others may disagree.

Edited by somenurse

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Or the egg . . . :) The God of the Christian bible is 3 persons in one entity.

I was taken aback at the idea posted above "No one ever ever questions a theist or deist who puts forth their idea, or promotes or even recruits for THEIR beliefs, no one". That just isn't true.

People of all faiths are persecuted, questioned, and sometimes killed. Right now one of the bigger stories is about a Christian pastor in jail in Iran and who may be executed because he left Islam and joined Christianity.

Christian pastor faces execution in Iran for refusing to renounce his faith | Mail Online

Day to day issues with people questioning a theist or deist are abundant - many times we've even encountered it on AN.

(Just an aside to JeanMarie - yes, going back and editing at length your posts is kinda unfair and truly, long long posts are hard to read).

You are right, i will try to break up my posts, when i am replying to more than one quote in one post, and i will try to shorten my posts, i am sorry, you are right.

your link, could be matched with links of muslims or gays in american being tortured or killed by christians. Many hate groups claim to be religious groups, much to the dismay of those in that religion. Throughout history, much much blood has been shed in the name of gods.

but, imo, the most important part to note in your link, is yet another example

of why we do NOT want theocracies, why we DO want civil law to trump religious law. Everytime, any religion BECOMES the civil law, disaster follows. (even times when christianity WAS the law of the land, horrific abuses follow, it doesn't matter which religion)

I am "for" separation of civil law and religious law.

Edited by somenurse

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i am highly spiritual but not religious at all.

i do wonder, how do atheists see the creation of this universe?

how does such magnificence and complexity create itself?

and that is why i believe in a superior, perfect, supreme energyform.

a question to all who are religious:

how do you see God?

how do you visualize Him?

i am not talking about Jesus Christ, i am talking about God.

leslie

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(Just an aside to JeanMarie - yes' date=' going back and editing at length your posts is kinda unfair [/quote']

why is editing unfair?

we don't "*seem*" to feel that anyone is putting us down.

Thanks.

i was under the impression that you have complained for years, that Christianity IS put down...

with you often being facetious by self-deprecating yourself as a 'whacko Christian'/something similar.

am i missing something?

leslie

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//"i do wonder, how do atheists see the creation of this universe?

how does such magnificence and complexity create itself?"//

this is a good question to ask about how gods got here, too.

This is a hard one, but i have studied the cosmos as an amateur, and there are many theories that seem more logical to me, than the idea of an invisible friend did it. there are mind-blowing concepts in science, such as even time can be slowed down, just an endless list of things we can barely conceptualize.

but, bottom line, is, not understanding something is does not make magic a likely answer. This is sometimes referred to, as "the god of the gaps", meaning, when there are gaps in our understanding, we insert gods as the answer then.

some speculate this not understanding things, is how early man first invented gods in the first place. Early man did not understand storms, it seemed like messages from an angry god!! so they threw best thing they could think of, some virgins, as a sacrifice, into a volcano, and the storm stopped! The gods were pleased. Religion only got fancier from there, yet, continued to oppress women.

Lucklly today, we DO have a better understanding of what causes storms, although, some religious leaders still think hurricans are messages from angry gods (such as President Bush's spiritual advisor).

but, not yet understanding something, does not make magic the most likely answer, imo.

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I like St. Patrick's view of the Trinity. The clover.

I would love to see a broader base of religions represented. There are so many that I know little about and this is a safe place to ask questions. Most of us do not come with all the answers.

I grew up in the United Methodist Church. I still pray & rely on Christian scripture. However, if one were to closely examine my views & look for a belief system most closely aligned with them, my beliefs are more closely aligned with the Bahai Faith.

Bahai Faith recognizes all world religions as having a common origin. This faith recognizes prophets from many religions as messengers of God. As an example, Jesus & Muhammad are given equal stature. The logic is that travel & communication were once limited, so God sent different prophets to different parts of the world, and varying religious traditions ensued.

I feel like the Bahai Faith validates my choice of worship (traditional, Christian prayer + study of scripture) without excluding the religious traditions of others.

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I prefer Voltaire's description. I feel comfortable not knowing or even having a vision of what God looks like. I look out at the universe and believe. It is likely that had I been born in another area of the world I might have embraced another religion. I still think it would have been with a one God approach.

This matches what I believe Jesus meant by the way, when he said that In his fahter's house there wer many rooms. I believe each room is for a different way of relating to a one God religion. This may not be comfortable for some Christians and if it offends, I apologize in advance. I cannot imagine an expanding universe without a beginning and in the beginning I believe it was God.

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interesting, short article that addresses your question, jean.

scientific and biblically supported.

www.doesgodexist.org/Pamphlets/WhoCreatedGod.html

leslie

yes, i've seen these things many a time, but, disagree with many many points there. but i like that the author is striving for a rational type approach, using parts of the bible he "likes". ONly the parts of the bible that one "likes" are true, If a person does not "like" a part of the bible, well then, that part is "not true".

but, thank you for the link, but 'cuz the bible said so' usually doesn't work for me.

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