More Than 10,000 Protest Move By Wisconsin's Governor to Destroy Public-Sector Unions - page 35

by herring_RN Guide

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the state capitol was awash tuesday in protests as thousands gathered to voice opposition to a bill by gov. scott walker that would greatly weaken organized labor in wisconsin. more than 10,000 protesters crowded the... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from quote=tntrn
    I wonder how long the school day is for there to be seven periods.

    Back in the day, our 9th hour was the time spent as punishment for whatever. So we had 8 regular class periods each and every day.

    If 7 seems to be too many, no wonder our school kids don't cut the mustard when compared to other countries.
    How long are these periods?

    I remember starting at 8:15 am. Six periods. Say 8th grade English, algebra, and history/civics classes each gave at least an hour of homework. My good friend could complete it in an hour. If took me longer and I got some "Bs" while she was straight "A". Orchestra required an hour of violin practice. I'd been allowed to stop piano lessons by then. PE didn't have homework.

    We got out at 3:30 and walked home. I cleaned the kitchen and started dinner. Then barely had time to do my homework, eat with the family, and go to bed with a flashlight under the covers to read a fun book. (Grandma shared a room.

    By high school with chemistry, biology, Latin, and journalism, and history classes homework really cost me sleep. I was in the marching band and on the girls track and swimming teams. After Catechism we went surfing often. (we did so last week. Pitiful old lady surfing compared to what we once did. Laughed at ourselves.)

    She earned a PhD and became head of a department at a major university. Still teaches pre med and dentistry students. has written many books. All with only six periods.
    Last edit by herring_RN on Jul 2, '11
  2. 0
    Quote from azhiker96
    Nice spin if I'm reading this correctly. So the "unfortunate agreements" are not the fault of the union who insisted on them. Instead it's the fault of management who agreed to them during the negotiations.

    I also wish them well in Wisconsin. It certainly sounds like the teachers are paid much better than they were when I was in school.
    NO! I did not say that. IF the schools were not educating kids then the teachers union was wrong. If seven periods a day results in better education then why didn't management negotiate that?
    I cannot be specific because I don't know whether the article contains "spin". How is it really better? Was it bad before?

    Since the teachers union offered to give in the all the economic conditions and renegotiate the rest why not let the school district come to the table? Can't the school board negotiate with teachers?

    In Los Angeles the union had no choice but to agree to layoffs because the money is not there. From articles already posted on this thread that was not the case in Wisconsin.
    Last edit by herring_RN on Nov 15, '11
  3. 1
    Quote from herring_RN
    NO! I did not say that.
    Okay, maybe I misinterpreted this.

    Seems that union had unfortunate agreements in the teachers' contract.

    Seems to me the management side should have bargained about this before.
    I thought you were talking about the negotiations that went on when the unfortunate agreements were inserted into the contract. Maybe you were talking about when the union offered concessions earlier this year.
    herring_RN likes this.
  4. 0
    the money part is significant.
    in the past, teachers and other staff at kaukauna were required to pay 10 percent of the cost of their health insurance coverage and none of their pension costs. now, they'll pay 12.6 percent of the cost of their coverage (still well below rates in much of the private sector) and also contribute 5.8 percent of salary to their pensions. the changes will save the school board an estimated $1.2 million this year, according to board president todd arnoldussen.
    one big improvement brought competition to providing healthcare.

    in the past, kaukauna's agreement with the teachers union required the school district to purchase health insurance coverage from something called wea trust -- a company created by the wisconsin teachers union. "it was in the collective bargaining agreement that we could only negotiate with them," says arnoldussen. "well, you know what happens when you can only negotiate with one vendor." this year, wea trust told kaukauna that it would face a significant increase in premiums.
    now, the collective bargaining agreement is gone, and the school district is free to shop around for coverage. and all of a sudden, wea trust has changed its position. "with these changes, the schools could go out for bids, and lo and behold, wea trust said, 'we can match the lowest bid,'"

    you're correct though, i don't know how much of this article is fact and how much is spin. that goes for almost any article you find anywhere. maybe the wea has an article describing the situation from their side with their own spin.
  5. 0
    Quote from azhiker96
    Okay, maybe I misinterpreted this.

    I thought you were talking about the negotiations that went on when the unfortunate agreements were inserted into the contract. Maybe you were talking about when the union offered concessions earlier this year.
    You may be right. I think I meant both before and after the concessions.

    I've only observed nurses union negotiations.
    The first was nearly 20 years ago. They began with a proposal to eliminate all vacation days, shorten paid time off and merge vacation with sick time, and eliminate employer contributions to health insurance and retirement. They wanted merit only raises in pay. This was a for profit employer. I bought one share to get shareholder information. I doubled my money in one year.

    We ended up with the same time off as before, lost two holidays, and paid more for health insurance but the percentage stayed the same.
    RNs feel a responsibility to make these items reasonable because lower paid colleagues in another union always end up with what we got. So RNs would rather be paid less and pay smaller amounts for healthcare and retirement.

    Our first proposal was to institute a maximum number of patients that could be assigned to a nurse on a specific unit. (This was pre ratio law).
    Management wouldn't have it. They had zero patient care improvements in their proposals or responses.

    But they could have.
    I erred in assuming the school district didn't propose any non budgetary ideas for decreasing class size because of my experience. Perhaps I did think management was equally responsible for the contract as the teachers. Why sign a contract that is unworkable? (Or maybe the contract was signed before fall of 2008 before the Wall Street mess was public knowlege)

    The attorneys who negotiated on behalf of the hospital never seemed to care about patient care at all. One never made eye contact with a nurse. Not once.
    They said, "We need control of the nurses." and spoke about "smooth flow". They seemed not to know that if not for nursing care there is no need for a hospital.

    Then we became part of a non profit. It is much better.
  6. 0
    Quote from azhiker96
    The money part is significant.


    One big improvement brought competition to providing healthcare.

    In the past, Kaukauna's agreement with the teachers union required the school district to purchase health insurance coverage from something called WEA Trust -- a company created by the Wisconsin teachers union. "It was in the collective bargaining agreement that we could only negotiate with them," says Arnoldussen. "Well, you know what happens when you can only negotiate with one vendor." This year, WEA Trust told Kaukauna that it would face a significant increase in premiums.
    Now, the collective bargaining agreement is gone, and the school district is free to shop around for coverage. And all of a sudden, WEA Trust has changed its position. "With these changes, the schools could go out for bids, and lo and behold, WEA Trust said, 'We can match the lowest bid,'"
    You're correct though, I don't know how much of this article is fact and how much is spin. That goes for almost any article you find anywhere. Maybe the WEA has an article describing the situation from their side with their own spin.
    Maybe they do.

    So the school district did not agree to an insurance company that was too expensive. The rates were going to increase. I'm hoping that without the elimination of union negotiations the teacher and school district would have negotiated a lower cost health insurance.
  7. 1
    An update:

    Scott Walker Concedes Mistakes, Defends Policies

    Scott Walker Concedes Mistakes, Defends Policies

    By Edith Honan

    SALT LAKE CITY, July 16 (Reuters) - Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, whose moves to curb state workers' bargaining power brought massive protests, said this weekend he made mistakes but defended the policy steps of his rocky first term.

    ... "The mistake I made early on is, I looked at it almost like the head of a small business: identify a problem, identify a solution and go out and do it," Walker told Reuters at the National Governor's Association meeting in Salt Lake City.

    "I don't think we built enough of a political case, so we let ... the national organizations come in and define the debate while we were busy just getting the job done," he said.
    The poor baby ... just an honest businessman trying to "get the job done" when the big, bad outsiders came in and torpedoed him. Are we sure this guy is really from Wisconsin?
    herring_RN likes this.
  8. 2
    - Ohioans overturned a divisive anti-union law on Tuesday, delivering a significant defeat to Republican Gov. John Kasich and a victory to labor unions.

    Ohio voters rejected Issue 2, a ballot referendum on Senate Bill 5, a measure that restricts collective bargaining rights for more than 360,000 public employees, among other provisions. Opposition to the legislation inspired large protests from residents around the state this year.
    Ohio Issue 2: Controversial Anti-Union Law Defeated By Voters
    mediajunkie650 and herring_RN like this.
  9. 2
    wisconsin recall effort starts as gov. walker's foes start petition drive

    opponents of republican gov. scott walker have formally launched their effort to turn him out of office before his term ends, starting the process of collecting the signatures required to get a recall election on the state ballot.
    walker famously antagonized democrats, including organized labor, by spearheading the weakening of public-employee unions in the state. now, democrats hope to exact revenge.

    tuesday's morning edition carried a report from marti mickelson of member station wuwm on the start of the recall process in wisconsin and the attempt by walker opponents to collect the required 500,000 signatures...

    wisconsin recall effort starts as gov. walker's foes start petition drive : it's all politics : npr
    mediajunkie650 and aknottedyarn like this.
  10. 2
    Tea Party Plans Premeditated Felony Madison -- The kick off campaign to recall embattled governor Scott Walker kicks off in just four days and with that date approaching, the tea party has plans of its own. Politiscoop has received several screen shots of tea party and right wing activists planning to pass themselves off as those circulating petitions to recall the governor.

    In one facebook post a user named Charles Atlas Shrugging begins the plan by saying "I'd like to collect signatures of those who want to recall Walker...so I can have something to feed my shredder.."

    In another such post Matt Wynns who claims to be a small business owner states "I shall be heating my home with recall signature. as they sign, I'll make sure to tell them not to sign another petition. I figure I can get a hundred to a few hundred signatures off the ballot. F*#&* (Word edited) Liberals.
    Tea Party Plans Premeditated Felony | Wisconsin Politics

    Michael Maistelman, a Wisconsin attorney and election law expert who reviewed screenshots of the comments, says the postings could raise serious legal issues if the plan is to tamper with official recall petitions. "If a person fraudulently solicits recall petitions and then destroys those petitions, they will probably go to jail," Maistelman says. "The law is very clear on this."


    [UDPATE]: Reid Magney, a spokesman from Wisconsin's Government Accountability Board, says destroying or defacing an official recall petition would violate state law. (Here's the relevant statute.) Such a violation, he adds, would be a class I felony in Wisconsin, which carries a maximum fine of $10,000 and up to three-and-a-half years in jail.
    Conservatives Plot to Burn, Shred, and Sabotage Scott Walker Recall Effort | Mother Jones
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