Why there has to be a rape exception in antiabortion laws - Page 6Register Today!
- Boy, do I agree about the excess laws. That is one of the things that started the conversation about the use of Vag. US as a rape device. Yes, there are many people suing when it is not needed. I, for one, would like to see the GOP keep out of women's reproductive systems. That would cut down on unneeded laws that are just asking for law suits.
We could use better tax codes so a horse does not get a $77,000 tax credit and a child $1,000. If one wnats to make the point of being pro-life then help the living child out by reasonable tax codes. And don't spend money to kill prisoners. Huge waste of tax payuer money and a huge problem for lawyers. It causes need for more lawyers. That is something most people would agree is not needed. Not every lawyer is bad, that much I can tell you. The good ones are great and under recognized.
- Aug 28, '12 by tntrnLet's not use taxpayer money for killing unborn babies either. They have committed no crime. Prisoners, on the other hand....
- Aug 28, '12 by Spidey's momI'd like to suggest we all stop using the "talking points" arguments. Mentioning the $77,000 tax break for a horse vs. $1,000 for a kid is a talking point all over the news/net/blogs/ and Facebook, etc.
We get hammered with the same talking points all the time from both sides and it makes my eyes glaze over. I'm trying very hard not to do that. Both sides also take a tiny bit of truth and then run with it. Example - this transvaginal ultrasound scary monster RAPE issue.
Returning to ultrasounds - regular ultrasounds are done with a full bladder as well and that is also uncomfortable. If we are to ban all uncomfortable medical procedures, as an ER/L&D/Hospice nurse, I'd never be able to do much of anything.
What makes my skin crawl is the use of the word rape to describe an ultrasound. That's hyperbole intended to incite. That's just wrong.
I don't like it when pro-life folks are called "anti-choice" and I don't like it when pro-choice folks are called "pro-abortion". Those kinds of labels push us all away from each other and that is not a good way to live peaceable together. It was hard for me to choose just a small part of the article below - in order to understand where Jolie and I and tntrn and other folks on this thread come from, it would be a good idea to read the whole short article. Disagreement is of course welcome. This isn't "talking points" but a good synopsis (along with Jolie's on the prior page) of where we are coming from.
Opponents of this bill erroneously equated a transvaginal ultrasound with a “second rape” and in doing so successfully frightened many legislators. The reality is that the language “transvaginal ultrasound” was never included in the bill either in its initial form or in the later, amended form ultimately signed into law. Rather, the bill called for a woman to receive the “standard of care” as defined by the medical community. The American Institute of Ultrasound in Medicine defines the standard of care for ultrasonography. This includes offering either a transabdominal or transvaginal ultrasound for the first trimester, explaining that “If a transabdominal is not definitive, a transvaginal scan should be performed whenever possible.” Generally speaking, a transvaginal ultrasound is usually used for up to 11 weeks of a pregnancy, simply because until this time the embryo is small enough to need an internal view to capture it. Around 11 weeks the embryo is large enough that an abdominal ultrasound can capture a strong image, and so the standard then changes appropriately to abdominal ultrasound at this point.
Not unimportantly, a general practice by any medical practitioner is never to force a woman to have a transvaginal ultrasound (or any procedure) if she does not want it. In this case, the physician simply makes a note of the interaction to assure his attempt to provide medically accurate information and then provides an abdominal ultrasound.
Last edit by Spidey's mom on Aug 28, '12
- Aug 28, '12 by KornhonkBack to the original statement of this thread...So, if the Republican platform includes the exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother, would you then vote Republican? If not, I'm curious why you would bring this up? I am certainly not going to suggest what the Democratic platform should be.
Also, if the exceptions are included, would this satisfy the pro-choice crowd? If so, we will have finally reached a point of agreement about this very devisive issue.
- Aug 28, '12 by dirtyhippiegirlQuote from tntrnExcept the prisoners who are found to be innocent via retrograde testing -- esp. the ones who are executed and later exonerated.Let's not use taxpayer money for killing unborn babies either. They have committed no crime. Prisoners, on the other hand....
- Quote from dirtyhippiegirlThat is one of the reasons not to kill prisoners. Mine is respect for life. If you are "pro-life" then how can you justify killing? If you are willing to go to battle for the unborn, why not for the folks who need help?Except the prisoners who are found to be innocent via retrograde testing -- esp. the ones who are executed and later exonerated.
Steph, we already discussed the fact that medical procedures are necessary. I have no problem with the uncomfortableness of a full bladder with testing. Don't like it, but when necessary, fine. As far as your not liking the word rape and feeling it is incidiary and hyperbole: I would direct you to the definition of rape #42 in this thread.
Somethings you can't make nice. No matter how many times I have read the right wing's discussions of their misguided thoughts on rape it does not change the picture. Rape is the use of power and control in a sexual activity. It has little to do with sex other than it is one of the most effective ways to humiliate a woman.
- Aug 28, '12 by tntrnI don't in any way see how the use of a transvaginal US is "sexual activity". It says a lot about those who label it that way.
- Last time I heard the vagina was considered part of a woman's sexual organs. Therefore illegal entry into it is rape.
- Aug 28, '12 by JolieWhen posters guide the discussion away from the topic and toward inflammatory language, it is an indication that they have no legitimate points left to make.
- Aug 28, '12 by JolieQuote from aknottedyarnI don't advocate killing. I accept your proposal. I'll advocate for the end of the death penalty. You advocate for the end of abortion. After all who can possibly be more in need of help than an unborn baby about to be destroyed in his mother's womb?That is one of the reasons not to kill prisoners. Mine is respect for life. If you are "pro-life" then how can you justify killing? If you are willing to go to battle for the unborn, why not for the folks who need help?