Walmart and Dick's Raise Minimum Age for Gun Buyers to 21 - page 20

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  1. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Licensing without individual firearm registration can and does work. You will engender massive opposition to gun registration. I suspect you might even create a backlash that would roll back any beneficial regulations you might have gotten through previously.
    Yes, there would be a backlash. Every time the concept is mentioned, there is talk from the paranoid about the government wanting to take guns away.

    But a perceived backlash, is NO reason not to do it. There was a backlash to the civil rights movement.

    I have no idea why some gun owners feel they are a protected class. They are not. With rights, come responsibilities.

    You can't scream "fire" in a crowded theatre, when there is no fire.That isn't an infringement on free speech.

    Again, if I was a gun enthusiast, I would support any and all actions to make gun ownership as transparent as possible to uphold my responsibility to public safety.

    Oliver North is apparently positioning the NRA as a "civil rights" organization. LOL!

    He is a convicted criminal! After smuggling arms, how is he allowed to own guns? I understand how he is qualified to head a terror organization.
  2. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from Lil Nel
    Yes, there would be a backlash. Every time the concept is mentioned, there is talk from the paranoid about the government wanting to take guns away.

    But a perceived backlash, is NO reason not to do it. There was a backlash to the civil rights movement.

    I have no idea why some gun owners feel they are a protected class. They are not. With rights, come responsibilities.

    You can't scream "fire" in a crowded theatre, when there is no fire.That isn't an infringement on free speech.

    Again, if I was a gun enthusiast, I would support any and all actions to make gun ownership as transparent as possible to uphold my responsibility to public safety.

    Oliver North is apparently positioning the NRA as a "civil rights" organization. LOL!

    He is a convicted criminal! After smuggling arms, how is he allowed to own guns? I understand how he is qualified to head a terror organization.
    Gun registration is a bridge too far. You can't get it passed. Were it to pass I would expect violent resistance.
    And it's not paranoid if they are really doing it. We saw what happened in California. First certain guns were required to be registered, years later those registration lists were used to confiscate those guns. It's not a paranoid fear, but recent history.
    I would not comply. I know that gun registration has absolutely nothing to do with gun safety or gun crime. Its also impossible given that currently there are no records of who owns what and the ease of manufacturing guns at home. I would see it as an attempt to manufacture criminals out of otherwise law-abiding people.
  3. by   MunoRN
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    License yes, registration no. I can imagine nothing that would be more bitterly opposed, ignored and deliberately resisted than registration of individual firearms. I would expect wide spread civil disobedience to a national gun registration regulation. Not a chance in hell I would register my firearms.
    Nothing else would so instantly raise the worst suspicion among gun owners.
    Licensing has no effect on what registration would address; accountability of gun ownership to ensure that those not allowed to own a gun have a harder time obtaining and keeping firearms illegally.

    You're at least part right about the backlash, but it's already here and it's not anti-regulation. Currently, support for federal firearm registration polls around 70%, it's even a majority (barely) among gun owners. More importantly though, that support isn't going to decrease in coming years, support among high schoolers for firearm registration polls at 96%.

    At this point federal gun registration is unavoidable, as gun owners we can either make an attempt to manage our own destiny, or do what we always do which is to refuse to take part in the forming of these regulations, and then later complain that the regulations were written without significant input from gun owners.

    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Gun registration is a bridge too far. You can't get it passed. Were it to pass I would expect violent resistance.
    And it's not paranoid if they are really doing it. We saw what happened in California. First certain guns were required to be registered, years later those registration lists were used to confiscate those guns. It's not a paranoid fear, but recent history.
    I would not comply. I know that gun registration has absolutely nothing to do with gun safety or gun crime. Its also impossible given that currently there are no records of who owns what and the ease of manufacturing guns at home. I would see it as an attempt to manufacture criminals out of otherwise law-abiding people.
    I am curious why you don't feel registration has "absolutely nothing to do with gun safety or gun crime".

    For every law there is a subgroup that defies the law and can rationalize breaking the law, they're called criminals.
  4. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from MunoRN
    Licensing has no effect on what registration would address; accountability of gun ownership to ensure that those not allowed to own a gun have a harder time obtaining and keeping firearms illegally.

    You're at least part right about the backlash, but it's already here and it's not anti-regulation. Currently, support for federal firearm registration polls around 70%, it's even a majority (barely) among gun owners. More importantly though, that support isn't going to decrease in coming years, support among high schoolers for firearm registration polls at 96%.

    At this point federal gun registration is unavoidable, as gun owners we can either make an attempt to manage our own destiny, or do what we always do which is to refuse to take part in the forming of these regulations, and then later complain that the regulations were written without significant input from gun owners.



    I am curious why you don't feel registration has "absolutely nothing to do with gun safety or gun crime".

    For every law there is a subgroup that defies the law and can rationalize breaking the law, they're called criminals.
    While I agree with your arguments, I do have a question regarding licensing. Why can't licensing be used to insure that folks who shouldn't have guns not get them? Why do you see it as only through registration?

    Just curious.
  5. by   MunoRN
    Quote from Lil Nel
    While I agree with your arguments, I do have a question regarding licensing. Why can't licensing be used to insure that folks who shouldn't have guns not get them? Why do you see it as only through registration?

    Just curious.
    Licensing has it's role, which is mainly a convenience improvement by acting as a continuously active background check, although for many a CCW serves the same purpose.

    When someone's firearm ownership becomes illegal due to becoming a convicted felon or is adjudicated as criminally insane, cancelling their license only prevents them from buying firearms in the future, it doesn't do anything about the closet of firearms they might already have, which is where registration comes in. Currently, criminals obtain their firearms primarily through legal buyers, there is currently no reliable way to track weapons used in crimes back to these suppliers and there isn't much deterrent for them to supply criminals with weapons in the first place without a registration process.
  6. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from Lil Nel
    While I agree with your arguments, I do have a question regarding licensing. Why can't licensing be used to insure that folks who shouldn't have guns not get them? Why do you see it as only through registration?

    Just curious.
    Canada has much lower rates of gun crimes than the US and they do not register individual guns. They do have a pretty good gin owners licensin program that works very well without gun registration.
  7. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Canada has much lower rates of gun crimes than the US and they do not register individual guns. They do have a pretty good gin owners licensin program that works very well without gun registration.
    So what are the Canadians doing differently, that gives them better results? How does licensing differ?
  8. by   chare
    Quote from MunoRN
    [...]
    When someone's firearm ownership becomes illegal due to becoming a convicted felon or is adjudicated as criminally insane, cancelling their license only prevents them from buying firearms in the future, it doesn't do anything about the closet of firearms they might already have, which is where registration comes in. Currently, criminals obtain their firearms primarily through legal buyers, there is currently no reliable way to track weapons used in crimes back to these suppliers and there isn't much deterrent for them to supply criminals with weapons in the first place without a registration process.
    This only works if they register the firearms currently owned when registration is enacted, and any future firearms purchased in future private sales. Purchasing firearms from legal owners is one way criminals obtain weapons, weapons are also obtained by theft or purchased on the black market.

    I agree with PMFB that licensure to own a firearm should be sufficient. Not only would this allow for completion of a thorough background check, but firearms safety training can be included as a requirement.
  9. by   MunoRN
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Canada has much lower rates of gun crimes than the US and they do not register individual guns. They do have a pretty good gin owners licensin program that works very well without gun registration.
    With the exception of hunting rifles and shotguns which were Exempted a few years ago, Canada does require registration of firearms including handguns and semi-automatic rifles.
  10. by   MunoRN
    Quote from chare
    This only works if they register the firearms currently owned when registration is enacted, and any future firearms purchased in future private sales. Purchasing firearms from legal owners is one way criminals obtain weapons, weapons are also obtained by theft or purchased on the black market.

    I agree with PMFB that licensure to own a firearm should be sufficient. Not only would this allow for completion of a thorough background check, but firearms safety training can be included as a requirement.
    There will certainly be a large number of residual unregistered firearms for some time to come, I don't think that's a logical reason to continue to Kick the Can down the road. That would be like if you had a patient whose bleeding into their chest and you say there is no point in stopping the bleeding because there will still be blood left in the chest that will take some time to reabsorb.

    I'm not sure how you figure that licensing replaces the issues that registration would address. For instance if you have a gang members girlfriend who is buying guns for the whole gang, there is no way to discover that she is the one providing them with Firearms to either stop her or deter her in the first place if the weapons that they are using can't be traced back to her . If the firearms she has bought are registered then it's much easier to stop that source of guns.
  11. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from MunoRN
    With the exception of hunting rifles and shotguns which were Exempted a few years ago, Canada does require registration of firearms including handguns and semi-automatic rifles.
    Or, the more accurate way of saying that, no registration required for the vast majority of firearms in Canada.
  12. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from Lil Nel
    So what are the Canadians doing differently, that gives them better results? How does licensing differ?
    Well having a license process is the biggest difference. The US has no such requirement at all.
  13. by   Lil Nel
    And in the meantime, while politicians do nothing, and the NRA continues its terror campaign, another school shooting takes place, in God' country for guns: Texas.

    Nice.

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