The VP Debate: "bunch of malarkey..." - page 4

by Joe V 3,900 Views | 72 Comments Admin

What did you think about the VP Debate? Who won? What was your favorite moment?... Read More


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    I am excited to read that our conservative posters feel that our president should admit errors. That has certainly not been something that we have heard much of in the last 12 years.

    Of course, I bet if he admitted that he had done something wrong, on the world stage, his detractors would then criticize him for showing the world weakness and thus making us vulnerable. I wish I was wealthy enough to bet $50k on that one.

    I don't have a problem with humility in our leadership. I think humility is a virtue that serves us all well. Unfortunately, humility doesn't generally play well in politics and war.
    Ayvah and Elvish like this.
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    Quote from tewdles
    I am excited to read that our conservative posters feel that our president should admit errors. That has certainly not been something that we have heard much of in the last 12 years.

    This made me think of giant "mission accomplished" banners on aircraft carriers.
    TheCommuter likes this.
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    I'm not sure where anyone is getting the idea that I don't think PEOPLE lie. It's a human condition and I'm not surprised by it.

    Personally I've always admitted when someone I voted for or admired made a mistake. I voted for Bush but disagreed with him many times here on AN and in public with my family.

    This issue for me is simply that four Americans died in Libya and initially the story about why it happened focused on a video being the cause of the attack in Libya. That was not true. Now with the hearings going on, people are denying they knew anything about the embassy asking for help and it was all the intelligence communty's fault that they didn't know.

    The families of the four Americans deserve the truth.

    They aren't getting it yet.

    THAT is all I'm talking about when it comes to lies. I'm not suggesting conservatives don't lie. I'm not suggesting I would never point out when a conservative lies.

    Red herrings . . . in my opinion.
    VivaLasViejas, Jolie, and tntrn like this.
  4. 2
    twedles,

    I don't recall you being active here during the Bush administration, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Steph, Viva, tnt, Timothy and I (among others) were quite vocal about Bush's shortcomings, which were many and often discussed.

    I likewise welcome acknowledgement from the other side of the aisle when their guy messes up.
    Spidey's mom and VivaLasViejas like this.
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    Quote from Jolie
    herring,

    If your budget required you to make priorities and reduce funding of one item in order to preserve another, would you sacrifice your safety in the most dangerous neighborhood in town in order to maintain appearances in front of your friends?

    Or more to the point, would you sacrifice the safety of your loyal and hard-working employees in the most dangerous neighborhood in town in order to look good to your fickle "friends?"

    Our President and his administration shouldn't have done that. I might have a bit of respect if he would simply acknowledge that he and his team made a grave error in judgement, instead of trying desperately and ineffectively to cover it all up. That is a disgrace to the families of the brutally slain individuals and an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their dogs, who can see right thru the whole charade.

    Leaders admit their errors. Little boys and little men attempt to blame others.
    Security was not cut in Benghazi. The 16 security team members that were cut in Libya, were in Tripoli, not Benghazi. Tripoli is 400 miles from Benghazi.

    I'm pretty sure that not every decision made in the Federal government is made by the VP (nor do we want them to be), actually I think it's pretty likely that there are a large number of decisions that are made every day by people in the Federal Government who aren't the VP.

    I am admittedly a product of the "lamestream media" (everything but Fox news anyway) so I'm not really getting how this was some sort of complex cover up. There were well publicized demonstrations throughout the middle east relating to a video, at the same time an embassy was raided, initially creating the impression among everyone (even Fox news) that it may have been related to the video, combined with the 9/11 anniversary. As the information became more complete, it was disclosed by the White House. If passing on information as it becomes available is the supposed "cover-up", then White House is really bad at cover-ups.
  6. 1
    This article contradicts your assertion:

    Requests for reinforcements at Libya embassy went unanswered - Tampa Bay Tampa Top News | Examiner.com

    Prior to a terrorist attack in Libya last month that killed U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three of his staff, multiple requests for reinforcements to defend the American mission in Benghazi went unanswered by the State Department.
    U.S. security officer Eric Nordstrom, who was based in Tripoli until about two months before the September attacks, said Charlene Lamb from the State Department wanted to keep the number of U.S. security personnel in Benghazi "artificially low," according to a memo obtained by Reuters.
    Earlier this year, Nordstrom also listed 230 different security incidents that occurred in Libya to bolster his case that the U.S. embassy was not adequately secured. The incidents occurred between June 2011 and July 2012, according to another document....

    Documents showing agents on the ground in Benghazi requested reinforcements multiple times over a period of months and received no response and in Lamb’s case a denial of a request for additional security does not bode well for Obama’s re-election campaign.
    Spidey's mom likes this.
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    More evidence that the requests of the diplomatic staff in Benghazi were ignored:

    Benghazi, Libya Embassy Attack: Eric Nordstrom Says Security 'Inappropriately Low' | Video - ABC News

    And please don't bother with the excuse that Obama and/or Biden were unaware of these desperate requests. It is not the job of those serving overseas to circumvent the established chain of command and plead directly to the White House. It is the job of the Administration to accept responsibility for the actions of their underlings, including the Department of State. As a nurse manager, it was my responsibility to know what was happening on my unit 24/7 and accept responsibility for it, whether or not I was directly involved. Lack of knowledge was no excuse, because it meant that I wasn't doing my job. We need to hold the commander in Chief to the same standards as nurse managers.

    Personally, I think this is shaping up as an opportunity for Obama to throw Hillary under the bus to cover his own sorry butt. That's a story for another day.
    VivaLasViejas, Spidey's mom, and tntrn like this.
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    White House: Buck Stops With Hillary on Libya

    I spotted this earlier today.

    It appears that this administration takes responsibility for nothing.
  9. 0
    Jolie, your post referred the fact that we "reduced our funding", the only place we reduced our funding was in Tripoli, not Benghazi. The Benghazi embassy requested additional security (failing to increase a security budget is not a "cut" so that doesn't appear to be what you were referring to), which in retrospect would have been a great idea, I don't think anybody is arguing that.

    So then the question is, who cut the funding?
    "For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department’s Worldwide Security Protection program — well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration. House Republicans cut the administration’s request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. (Negotiations with the Democrat-controlled Senate restored about $88 million of the administration’s request.) Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans’ proposed cuts to her department would be “detrimental to America’s national security” — a charge Republicans rejected."

    Personally I'm not a fan of publicizing this sort of thing for political gain, but if you really want to lay blame where it belongs, there you go.
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    The Roman Catholic Church, led by Pope John Paul II, opposed the U.S.-led war in Iraq. Those of taxpayers us who also opposed the war had to pay for it. I believe in my soul that killing war was morally wrong. So much lying and betrayal went into that horrid war.

    Paul Ryan Says He Has 'Foreign Affairs' Experience Because He 'Voted For Iraq War'



    Last edit by herring_RN on Oct 13, '12 : Reason: typo
    Elvish likes this.


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