US jobless rate falls to 7.8 pct., 44-month low - page 8

The U.S. unemployment rate fell to 7.8 percent last month, dropping below 8 percent for the first time in nearly four years. The Labor Department says employers added 114,000 jobs in September. The... Read More

  1. Visit  tntrn profile page
    0
    Wind Turbine Explodes Into Flames : Discovery News

    Here is a video of a wind turbine exploding in flames in Scotland.

    Two in Denmark in 2008 spun out of control in high winds and broke apart.

    Nothing is completely foolproof.
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  3. Visit  Tweety profile page
    1
    Quote from tntrn
    Nothing is completely foolproof.
    Don't we know it...I recall some recent event in the Gulf that caused economic collapse to many small businesses and massive marine life casualties, but the cry then was "drill baby drill".

    Did I just do a tit for tat change of subject? Guess I did since we're talking the latest unemployment rate....oh wait...
    tewdles likes this.
  4. Visit  tntrn profile page
    1
    tweety, is there a bee in your bonnet today?
    mc3 likes this.
  5. Visit  heron profile page
    1
    Unfortunately, we have no easily accessible photographs of the accidents and business failures in the early days of the fossil fuel industries ... they started up back in the nineteenth century.

    Apples and oranges ... you can't compare mature industries in a market that goes back over a hundred years to fledgling industries trying to compete with them while creating the technology to do so from the ground up.

    Tweety ... google "the Gish Gallop". It'll all make sense.
    tewdles likes this.
  6. Visit  mc3 profile page
    1
    It would have created jobs temporarily. I guess I would have liked to think the businessman - let's say a farm and feed supply company - would improve his business such that he could hire 1 or 2 people, full-time. That's all I meant....
    Am I know going to be known as a bunny-hater now? I'm not, really!!!
    mc3
    Last edit by mc3 on Oct 7, '12 : Reason: because
    Tweety likes this.
  7. Visit  heron profile page
    2
    Here's an interesting overview of the "green economy", including a look at jobs, from the Brookings Institution.

    This is a brief quote from one of the articles in the series:

    http://www.brookings.edu/research/re...-clean-economy

    The clean economy, which employs some 2.7 million workers, encompasses a significant number of jobs in establishments spread across a diverse group of industries. Though modest in size, the clean economy employs more workers than the fossil fuel industry and bulks larger than bioscience but remains smaller than the IT-producing sectors. Most clean economy jobs reside in mature segments that cover a wide swath of activities including manufacturing and the provision of public services such as wastewater and mass transit. A smaller portion of the clean economy encompasses newer segments that respond to energy-related challenges. These include the solar photovoltaic (PV), wind, fuel cell, smart grid, biofuel, and battery industries.


    The clean economy grew more slowly in aggregate than the national economy between 2003 and 2010, but newer "cleantech" segments produced explosive job gains and the clean economy outperformed the nation during the recession. Overall, today's clean economy establishments added half a million jobs between 2003 and 2010, expanding at an annual rate of 3.4 percent. This performance lagged the growth in the national economy, which grew by 4.2 percent annually over the period (if job losses from establishment closings are omitted to make the data comparable). However, this measured growth heavily reflected the fact that many longer-standing companies in the clean economy--especially those involved in housing- and building-related segments--laid off large numbers of workers during the real estate crash of 2007 and 2008, while sectors unrelated to the clean economy (mainly health care) created many more new jobs nationally. At the same time, newer clean economy establishments-- especially those in young energy-related segments such as wind energy, solar PV, and smart grid--added jobs at a torrid pace, albeit from small bases.
    Seems to me that "green industries" are going through the same growing pains as any other new market ... most new companies go out of business inside of five years for one reason or another. When was the last time you bought an Atari anywhere but eBay? A Betamax tape player? Or even a VHS?

    Trying to invalidate a whole area of endeavor by citing a spectacular failure or two is a bit like saying we should stop buying cars because the Edsel and the DeLorean were duds.

    Here's what has the fossil fuel floggers in a panic: (from another part of the series)

    http://www.brookings.edu/research/sp...n-economy-katz

    ...we have identified a group of young, super innovative "Cleantech" industries that cross multiple categories and show enormous growth potential. These industries are populated by companies with a median age of 15 years or less.

    Most notably, this portfolio of segments--including wind power, battery technologies, bio fuels, and smart grid--grew about 8 percent a year since 2003, or twice as fast as the rest of the economy.

    The clean economy, however, is not just broad and diverse, it is disproportionately productive.

    The clean economy is export intensive, already taking advantage of the demand for clean goods and services coming from abroad.

    In 2009, clean economy establishments exported almost $54 billion, including about $49.5 billion in goods and an additional $4.5 billion in services.

    Significantly, clean economy establishments are by our calculations twice as export intensive as the national economy: over $20,000 worth of exports is sold for every job in the clean economy each year compared to just $10,400 worth of exports for the average U.S. job.
    Soo ... just what gate are we talking about?
    tewdles and herring_RN like this.
  8. Visit  herring_RN profile page
    2
    For 71 years the Federal Bonneville Power Administration has been producing more than 1/3 of the electricity for the states of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, and Nevada. This is sold at cost to those states and some electricity to California and to Canada.
    Alcoa Aluminum did so well because of the low cost electricity from the BPA.
    Our DWP purchases BPA power. When the Enron crooks had electric bills increasing up to 16 times what they had been ours did not.
    Bonneville is an excellent federal project.

    The wind blows all the time in Oklahoma. Wind power may help people as water power does six of our states.

    tewdles and heron like this.
  9. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    0
    Quote from heron

    Tweety ... google "the Gish Gallop". It'll all make sense.
    Someone already mentioned this . . .Tweety looked and then wrote "profanity alert" when I quoted it and said it sounded like a tactic used by all sides - basically politics as usual.

    This "Gish Gallop" thing must be a "talking point" from somewhere. It has come up recently a lot.
  10. Visit  herring_RN profile page
    1
    I'm typing on this computer powered by the Bonneville Power Administration. Our electric bill is about $60.00 a month, paid every other month.
    The family renting my aunt and uncle's house in Oklahoma pay zero. They have more appliances that we do. About twice a month someone has o pull the weeds from the windmill.
    tewdles likes this.
  11. Visit  heron profile page
    2
    Not sure where the profanity lies, but here's one definition:

    Gish Gallop - RationalWiki

    The Gish Gallop, named after creationist Duane Gish, is the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott of the National Center for Science Education.


    The formal debating jargon term for this is spreading. You can hear some mindboggling examples here. It arose as a way to throw as much rubbish into five minutes as possible. In response, some debate judges now limit number of arguments as well as time. However, in places where debating judges aren't there to call ******** on the practice, like the internet, such techniques are remarkably common.
    Agreed that it's used universally ... all the more reason to call it when we see it.
    tewdles and herring_RN like this.
  12. Visit  Tweety profile page
    2
    Quote from tntrn
    tweety, is there a bee in your bonnet today?
    Not really, but there's pizz in my cornflakes and my panties are in a wad, there's rain on my parade and clouds in my coffee.
    tewdles and tntrn like this.
  13. Visit  Tweety profile page
    0
    Quote from mc3
    It would have created jobs temporarily. I guess I would have liked to think the businessman - let's say a farm and feed supply company - would improve his business such that he could hire 1 or 2 people, full-time. That's all I meant....
    Am I know going to be known as a bunny-hater now? I'm not, really!!!
    mc3
    I don't think you're a bunny hater. You're concerned with how our tax dollars are spent. I understand.
  14. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    0
    Quote from heron
    Not sure where the profanity lies, but here's one definition:

    Gish Gallop - RationalWiki



    Agreed that it's used universally ... all the more reason to call it when we see it.
    It was a different link.

    Urban Dictionary: gish gallop

    The first sentence starts it . . . .


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