The Right of U.S Citizens to Vote

  1. ... To Get An ID, You Need An ID
    People are caught in a Catch-22: You need a birth certificate to get this ID, but to get a birth certificate you have to have an ID.
    In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren't regularly generated in the 1930s and earlier. And many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies' and parents' names on birth documents...
    Why New Photo ID Laws Mean Some Won't Vote : NPR
    Last edit by herring_RN on Feb 13 : Reason: Forgot link
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  2. 22 Comments

  3. by   herring_RN
    If anyone has any questions about posts I made regarding voting in another thread I will be happy to try answering them here.
    I was uncomfortable discussing it in another topic.
  4. by   tntrn
    To your question, no a person should not be denied to vote without due process. But I would say that if they haven't done what they need to do, in the case you mentioned before, then expecting that required change to be overlooked on election day, is also unreasonable.

    To the issue of birth certificates, and using that 1930 date from above. Anyone born in 1930 or before would be 87 or older. My father was born in 1927, in a farmhouse, and had a birth certificate. My point about that was that as time marches on, they will be fewer and fewer of those of those advancing ages and even some of those will have a birth certificate. Should we wait until 2035 to stop with this argument? There will without question be another one by then.
  5. by   Spidey's mom
    I have both my grandparents birth certificates and my parents as well. I love keepsakes. They were all born in rural areas - my grandparents in Arkansas and Oklahoma on small farms. My parents also in the same area until both sets of families moved to California.

    I'm almost 60 by the way so my grandparents were born around the turn of last century.

    If someone who is 87 has never been able to vote because they didn't have a birth certificate to get an ID . . . why didn't they fix that when they turned 21? Or through all those years in between?

    I think this is a small minority of cases and law shouldn't be based on that. Why not just help those people get their birth certificates and ID?

    It is easy to get a birth certificate. I live 80 miles away from our county offices and I've gone in a couple of times to get copies of my kids' birth certificates. You have to show them for everything nowadays and I've managed to lose them through the years. If you live far away from your birth place, you can do this through the mail or online.

    If you know someone who can't vote because they don't have a birth certificate, help them get one.

    As tntrn said, this generation of folks who didn't get a birth certificate will soon die out and this won't be an issue anymore. It shouldn't be an issue because it is an easy fix.
  6. by   herring_RN
    Regarding the college student I heard on the radio:
    She did not try to vote. According to my memory after she got married she went to the DMV soon after and changed the name on her driver's license.

    Their apartment was robbed. In addition to cash, a computer, and jewelry she thought their marriage license was taken. She said she may have lost it.

    When her state required voter ID she was told that she had to bring her birth certificate to the DMV. Although it was the same state that issued the marriage license and the same DMV that allowed the name change she was told she had to show her marriage license to get a voter ID.

    Even then she would have to pay $300.00 to the state to get a copy of the marriage license and file a name change.

    That was a couple years ago.
    She missed voting that year. She was planning to vote last November, and probably did.

    I think when all the people born in the United States have their citizenship verified that would solve it.
  7. by   toomuchbaloney
    There is no documented large scale problem with in person voter fraud which is an indication that previous requirements and vetting is effective. Why are republicans so focused on voting rights and changing requirements when there is exactly zero evidence that we have a problem?

    Let me answer that; because it's not really about preventing fraud.
  8. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from herring_RN
    Even then she would have to pay $300.00 to the state to get a copy of the marriage license and file a name change.

    .
    I just looked up getting a copy of a marriage certificate in Shasta County (which is in California). The fee is $15.00. You can do it online or in person or by mail.

    As to changing your name after marriage, the DMV charges $33.00.

    Name Change Check List

    The requirements are:
    Change your name with the local Social Security Administration (SSA). DMV electronically verifies your name, birth date and social security number (SSN) with the SSA.
    Complete an original Driver License or Identification Card Application form (DL 44) or Commercial Driver License Application (DL 44C). To obtain a DL 44 or DL 44C form by mail, call DMV's automated phone service 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at 1-800-777-0133.
    Commercial Driver License holders only: Complete a 10 Year History Record Check form (DL 939) if you have been issued a driver license in the same or different name to operate any type of motor vehicle in another state or other jurisdiction within the previous ten years.
    Commercial Driver License holders only: Obtain a new Medical Examiner's Certificate from the medical examiner who performed your current commercial medical examination.
    Provide evidence of your name change by showing an original or certified copy of a Birth Date/Legal Presence document.
    Pay the application fee.
    Surrender your current driver license.

    Additional information regarding changing your name on your driver license and/or identification (ID) card.
  9. by   herring_RN
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    I have both my grandparents birth certificates and my parents as well. I love keepsakes. They were all born in rural areas - my grandparents in Arkansas and Oklahoma on small farms. My parents also in the same area until both sets of families moved to California.

    I'm almost 60 by the way so my grandparents were born around the turn of last century.

    If someone who is 87 has never been able to vote because they didn't have a birth certificate to get an ID . . . why didn't they fix that when they turned 21? Or through all those years in between?

    I think this is a small minority of cases and law shouldn't be based on that. Why not just help those people get their birth certificates and ID?

    It is easy to get a birth certificate. I live 80 miles away from our county offices and I've gone in a couple of times to get copies of my kids' birth certificates. You have to show them for everything nowadays and I've managed to lose them through the years. If you live far away from your birth place, you can do this through the mail or online.

    If you know someone who can't vote because they don't have a birth certificate, help them get one.

    As tntrn said, this generation of folks who didn't get a birth certificate will soon die out and this won't be an issue anymore. It shouldn't be an issue because it is an easy fix.
    I love keepsakes too. I saw my uncles birth certificate for the first time after he died in 2005. He was born on a table in Arkansas. He weighed 14 pounds. My grandmother later became type I diabetic. Because they called a doctor, who broke her pelvis, he got a birth certificate. That was 1918.
    QUESTION: If someone who is 87 has never been able to vote because they didn't have a birth certificate to get an ID . . . why didn't they fix that when they turned 21? Or through all those years in between?
    Many people did not have to produce a birth certificate to get an ID when they turned 21. At that time and place it was more common than modern people now know.

    My mother born in 1921 had no birth certificate. Somehow she was not so big and my Grandma had an easy delivery.
    My Mom registered to vote, and later obtained a passport with school records and report cards and her baptismal certificate from the Catholic church they attended when she was born. That church also kept birth announcements. She voted in every election.

    Her mother, my Grandma Minnie, was born in rural Texas. Her father had died in an accident before she was born Her mother died when she was two days old.
    She was unofficially cared for by German immigrants. She had to quit school in 3rd grad to pick cotton.
    At age 16 she got a job in a packing house. She attended a women's club where they worked for the vote for women.

    After women won the right to vote no one in the Texas county where she and most everyone had lived their entire life thought to question whether Minnie was born there. The story of how "Her Daddy was kilt by a runaway horse and her "Spanish Indian Mama" died of a fever" when she was a baby was told over and over.
    Of how that "Strong willed little thang" hated picking so she ironed every rich lady's pleated drapes and all and gave Miss Devers her pay."
    How "She was so ungrateful to be fed and cared for she give up the Baptist church and become a heathen Catholic."
    She registered to vote and proudly voted in every election until her death in 1978.

    My husband and his nine brothers and sisters were delivered by his grandmother. In Mississippi before they moved to Illinois they had no birth certificates. The younger ones did.

    Again, let me explain:
    My husband was born inn 1927.
    In 1948 he registered to vote.
    His ID was the family Bible with his birth record, His school records, His Illinois driver's license, and his draft card.
    When he moved to California in 1962 he registered to vote using his new California driver's license and his Illinois Voter Registration papers.
  10. by   PMFB-RN
    In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs.
    Well kinda. Those states will also accept a passport. And it's not just "citizens" who must present birth certificates, it's anyone who is applying for a photo ID.
    I've mentioned before that my state (Wisconsin) has a voter ID law, but a Wisconsin driver's license satisfies the ID requirement. There is absolutely no requirement that one be a citizen to obtain a WI drivers license and in fact many non citizens have WI drivers licenses. My wife is one of them. She is not a US citizen but holds a drivers license, as well as a state issued ID for her job identifying her as a county social worker.
    She, or any non citizen with a drivers license, could show up to vote and do so no problem.
    Any talk about voter ID being about preventing non citizens from voting, as the propaganda used to pass the WI voter ID law said, is patently absurd.
  11. by   elkpark
    I might be more willing to take seriously demands for laws requiring voter ID if they weren't always put forward by Republicans in the absence of any actual evidence of significant in-person voter fraud, and if the proposals didn't usually seem so carefully designed to exclude minorities, the elderly, and other groups perceived as being likely Democratic voters ...

    Court: North Carolina Voter ID Law Targeted Black Voters | Election 216 | FRONTLINE | PBS

    The ‘smoking gun’ proving North Carolina Republicans tried to disenfranchise black voters - The Washington Post

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...EkJol8YXWTj_Dw

    How Voter ID Laws Are Being Used to Disenfranchise Minorities and the Poor - The Atlantic

    | American Civil Liberties Union
  12. by   tntrn
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    Well kinda. Those states will also accept a passport. And it's not just "citizens" who must present birth certificates, it's anyone who is applying for a photo ID.
    I've mentioned before that my state (Wisconsin) has a voter ID law, but a Wisconsin driver's license satisfies the ID requirement. There is absolutely no requirement that one be a citizen to obtain a WI drivers license and in fact many non citizens have WI drivers licenses. My wife is one of them. She is not a US citizen but holds a drivers license, as well as a state issued ID for her job identifying her as a county social worker.
    She, or any non citizen with a drivers license, could show up to vote and do so no problem.
    Any talk about voter ID being about preventing non citizens from voting, as the propaganda used to pass the WI voter ID law said, is patently absurd.

    I am a bit confused. If your wife has a valid ID that could be used for voting purposes, but is not a citizen with voting rights, how is the law as proposed absurd. Serious quesion.....simply not understanding your last sentence. Thanks.
  13. by   toomuchbaloney
    You must prove citizenship in order to register to vote in every state.
    Once you have successfully registered to vote you should only have to prove you are the person registered IF the poll worker feels that you may not be who you say you are at the polling place. Requiring a different or special or exclusive type of ID to vote, in the absence of evidence that in person voter fraud is a problem, is a thinly veiled attempt to control which citizens are allowed or encouraged to vote and those who are not.
  14. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from tntrn
    I am a bit confused. If your wife has a valid ID that could be used for voting purposes, but is not a citizen with voting rights, how is the law as proposed absurd. Serious quesion.....simply not understanding your last sentence. Thanks.
    Much of the propaganda used to gather support for the Wisconsin voter ID law was aimed at preventing non citizens from voting. Then they passed a voter ID law that in no way would prevent non citizens from voting.
    This is powerful evidence that preventing non citizens from voting was just propaganda and not the actual goal.

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