Shooting at GOP Baseball practice - page 6

Suspect James Hodgkinson Dies After Shooting At GOP Baseball Practice; Rep. Steve Scalise Is Wounded : The Two-Way : NPR Twitter What a story to wake up to this morning. The FBI is taking... Read More

  1. by   Lil Nel
    I called the police because it was OUTRAGEOUS to me that somebody can simply set-up a gun show in their front yard and call it a Yard Sale and
    subject their neighbors to the obvious potential danger.

    I live in a subdivision, not a strip mall.

    Do you this guy was conducting background checks, or any other kind of check other than, 'you got cash?'

    As for a hammer or knife being classified an assault weapon. Really? How much NRA rhetoric do you consume? The only purpose of an AR-15 is to inflict
    maximum damage. That is why it is the choice weapon of mass shooters.
  2. by   No Stars In My Eyes
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    except cannabis
    why, tmb, are you having trouble finding something to say "NO" to????
    -------------------------------------------------
    ok, back to the thread's subject, in progess.
  3. by   macawake
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    The objective is to still the conversation about gun violence with pedantic arguments.
    I agree.

    Trying to equate owning a baseball bat with owning a firearm is intellectually dishonest.
    Again, I agree 100%.




    I am so fed up with the hearing slogans from various gun lobbying organizations being regurgitated ad nauseam by people when they attempt to justify what basically amounts to unfettered access to guns despite an individual's mental status, possible criminal history or even a requirement that the individual possesses the necessary knowledge to handle a firearm in a safe manner.

    As nurses we're scientifically trained. We shouldn't be promulgating inanities like "guns don't kill people, people kill people" or attempt to muddy the waters with kitchen knives and baseball bats. Instead we should look at what research tells us.

    The U.S has a higher homicide rate overall but it's really the guns that make you stand out. Citizens of all countries in the following study have relatively easy access to baseball bats and knives, not all have easy access to guns. Since I have a degree in criminology I'm not naive enough to think that access to weapons is the only factor that affects homicide rates, but anyone would have to be a fool or entirely in the pocket of those who make a huge profit from selling guns, to ignore these very clear statistics.



    Abstract:

    Violent Death Rates: The US Compared with Other High-income OECD Countries, 21. - PubMed - NCBI

    Full text:

    http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-...030-X/fulltext

    Methods


    We examined 2010 mortality data obtained from the World Health Organization for populous, high-income countries (n = 23).
    Results


    US homicide rates were 7.0 times higher than in other high-income countries, driven by a gun homicide rate that was 25.2 times higher.

    For 15- to 24-year-olds, the gun homicide rate in the United States was 49.0 times higher.

    Firearm-related suicide rates were 8.0 times higher in the United States, but the overall suicide rates were average.

    Unintentional firearm deaths were 6.2 times higher in the United States.

    The overall firearm death rate in the United States from all causes was 10.0 times higher.

    Ninety percent of women, 91% of children aged 0 to 14 years, 92% of youth aged 15 to 24 years, and 82% of all people killed by firearms were from the United States.
    The overall firearm death rate in the United States from all causes was 10.0 times higher. The total population for the United States in 2010 was 309 million people; the combined population for the other high-income countries was 664 million; thus, there were more than twice as many people living in these other high-income countries than were living in the United States. Yet, among everyone in these high-income countries, 82% of all firearm deaths occurred in the United States, 90% of all women killed by firearms were US women, 91% of all children aged 0 to 14 years who were killed by firearms were US children, and 92% of youth aged 15 to 24 years who were killed by firearms were US youth.
    (my bold)

    I know that hyperbole and superlatives aren't very scientific but these numbers are in my opinion really extremely terrifying. The United States, despite only making up one third of the entire study population, account for 90% or more of women and children of all ages, dying from firearm inflicted injuries. Does anyone really think that guns keep you safe?

    Conclusions

    Overall, our results show that the United States, which has the most firearms per capita in the world,31 suffers disproportionately from firearms compared with other high-income countries. These results are consistent with the hypothesis that our firearms are killing us rather than protecting us.





    As I've already said, if you want to support the second amendment on purely ideological grounds, do so. Just don't pretend that your (collective) right to bear arms with relatively minor restrictions, doesn't have consequences. Accept the fact that your ideological stance has ramifications.



    As many of you know, I'm not an American. I used to have a job where I carried a gun each and every day at work. I don't anymore. Since I enjoy shooting and competitions, I have kept practicing at the range and participated in competitions since I changed careers.

    Despite having been deemed trustworthy/stable enough to carry a gun in public on a daily basis, I had to go through the same process as anyone else wanting to take up shooting as a sport would. It involved getting a membership in a shooting club which requires that two individuals who are already members attest to the fact that I am a "solid, trustworthy" citizen. Then I had to be a member for a minimum of six months (shooting regularly) before I could apply for a license for a .22 caliber handgun (only). Getting the license approved required a minimum of six months of active shooting, passing proficiency tests; shooting 47 points or higher on several occasions (5 shots, 10 point inner circle appr. 3 inches in diameter, the 9-point adds another inch in diameter etc.) at 25 meters (appr. 27 yards), one-handed and having a clean criminal record (no violent crimes whatsoever, but a parking ticket wouldn't pose a problem). A year later I had a license for a 9 mm.

    I store my gun barrels in one geographical location, and the rest of the fieldstripped parts in a separate (miles apart) geographical location (both secure). No criminal will ever steal a complete gun, and no child will ever accidently lay their hands on them.

    I have no reason to have access to or carry a gun daily. I trust the police to respond when needed. I'm not paranoid, so I don't think my government is out to get me meaning I don't need to protect myself against it. I am able to weigh risks rationally. Despite my healthy eating habits and regular exercise I am much more likely to die from heart disease or cancer or be in a car accident, than I am likely to be the victim of a violent crime.
  4. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from tntrn
    What is dishonest is not acknoledging that a baseball bat or a knife can be used in a violent manner and when done so, what difference does it make what it was originally designed for?
    Baseball bats or knives don't rack up a high body count quicky. So when these idiots go on rampages in London or wherever they decide to act up, they're able to be contained or neutralized with far fewer fatalities and a lower body count than what we get on almost a daily basis. For someone who argues about the rights of fetuses inside a uterus, I'm surprised that you would not be in favor of something that would keep fewer people from dying once they're extrauterine.

    Or were you previously unaware that it's harder to kill someone with a baseball bat or a knife than with a firearm?
  5. by   tntrn
    Quote from ElvishDNP
    Baseball bats or knives don't rack up a high body count quicky. So when these idiots go on rampages in London or wherever they decide to act up, they're able to be contained or neutralized with far fewer fatalities and a lower body count than what we get on almost a daily basis. For someone who argues about the rights of fetuses inside a uterus, I'm surprised that you would not be in favor of something that would keep fewer people from dying once they're extrauterine.

    Or were you previously unaware that it's harder to kill someone with a baseball bat or a knife than with a firearm?
    My intent for having a firearm is precisely because, if I need to defend myself, a firearm will be way more efficient than any other kind of weapon. My firearms are meant for self-defense...nothing else.

    And unless I need to defend myself while in my own home or out in public, no one ever knows I have it.
  6. by   MunoRN
    Quote from tntrn
    You are correct. And we should point out than just anything can be used as an assault weapon. ballball bat, knife, hammer.....shall we place restrictions on sales of those items also?
    You can kill someone with just about anything, but I don't agree that all objects are equally effective as assault weapons. Do you really think a baseball bat is just as useful in a mass murder as a semiautomatic rifle?
  7. by   Ted
    The fervor towards gun-ownership, and ensuring gun-ownership, is pathological. It deadens common-sense and thoughtful reasoning. To be clear, I am NOT against gun-ownership. I am against gun-ownership at all costs. It is dangerously ridiculous. It's placing the welfare of THINGS, and owning THINGS, above the welfare of the red-blooded citizens (human-beings) of our country. Not good.
    Last edit by Ted on Jun 20
  8. by   elkpark
    Quote from ElvishDNP
    For someone who argues about the rights of fetuses inside a uterus, I'm surprised that you would not be in favor of something that would keep fewer people from dying once they're extrauterine.
    I'm not -- that's the standard right-wing position. Has been for a long time.
  9. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from elkpark
    I'm not -- that's the standard right-wing position. Has been for a long time.
    I was referring to another member. You and I are both fairly vocal about where we stand on....well, just about everything.
  10. by   elkpark
    Quote from ElvishDNP
    I was referring to another member. You and I are both fairly vocal about where we stand on....well, just about everything.
    I realized you were responding to another member; you said you were surprised by the other member's positions on those two (apparently conflicting) issues, and I was saying that I am not surprised by them. Sorry I wasn't clearer.
  11. by   PMFB-RN
    "I called the police because it was OUTRAGEOUS to me that somebody can simply set-up a gun show in their front yard and call it a Yard Sale and
    subject their neighbors to the obvious potential danger."

    I don't know what the danger would be.


    "Do you this guy was conducting background checks, or any other kind of check other than, 'you got cash?'"

    Why would he when no background checks are required?

    " The only purpose of an AR-15 is to inflict
    maximum damage. That is why it is the choice weapon of mass shooters."

    That's factually incorrect. We should be greatful that thus far mass shooters have chosen such a low powered weapon. You will notice that in the mass shootings only about 50% of those shot die. We're the shooters to choose, let's say, a normal rifle, like those used for deer hunting across the country, we should expect more dead and fewer wounded.
    The .223 round fired by the Amalite 15 rifle was specifically designed to wound humans. It's also also widely used hunting cartridge, but for small game and varmits. It's not even legal to use for deer and other big game hunting in many states because it can't be counted on the humanely kill deer sized game.
    We're mass shooters to instead choose something like a 30-06, the most popular big game cartridge in the USA, and available in all kinds of actions, including semi autos, instead of 10 killed and 10 wounded, we would expect 19 killed and 1 wounded.
    The Armalite 15 rifle functions no differently that a variety of other rifled that have been widely available for a 100 years or more in the USA. It's main difference is that it's ugly and looks tactical.
  12. by   tntrn
    Quote from PMFB-RN
    "I called the police because it was OUTRAGEOUS to me that somebody can simply set-up a gun show in their front yard and call it a Yard Sale and
    subject their neighbors to the obvious potential danger."

    I don't know what the danger would be.


    "Do you this guy was conducting background checks, or any other kind of check other than, 'you got cash?'"

    Why would he when no background checks are required?

    " The only purpose of an AR-15 is to inflict
    maximum damage. That is why it is the choice weapon of mass shooters."

    That's factually incorrect. We should be greatful that thus far mass shooters have chosen such a low powered weapon. You will notice that in the mass shootings only about 50% of those shot die. We're the shooters to choose, let's say, a normal rifle, like those used for deer hunting across the country, we should expect more dead and fewer wounded.
    The .223 round fired by the Amalite 15 rifle was specifically designed to wound humans. It's also also widely used hunting cartridge, but for small game and varmits. It's not even legal to use for deer and other big game hunting in many states because it can't be counted on the humanely kill deer sized game.
    We're mass shooters to instead choose something like a 30-06, the most popular big game cartridge in the USA, and available in all kinds of actions, including semi autos, instead of 10 killed and 10 wounded, we would expect 19 killed and 1 wounded.
    The Armalite 15 rifle functions no differently that a variety of other rifled that have been widely available for a 100 years or more in the USA. It's main difference is that it's ugly and looks tactical.
    I wish I could "Like" this 1000 times. Thank you for providing more detailed information (again) for those who clearly don't have the facts.
  13. by   toomuchbaloney
    The AR is a poor excuse for a hunting rifle.
    Yet, people actually claim that they hunt with them and that is part of the reason they should be widely available to any and every shooter. ARs weren't designed for hunting. They were designed for human combat in urban settings.

    Regardless of whether sometime gets the specifics of a gun exactly correct enough to please a gun enthusiast, selling guns at yard sales should not be legal. Again, we get a detailed correction on how a weapon is described because THAT is easy to criticize without actually addressing the core issue.

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