Shooting at GOP Baseball practice - page 2

Suspect James Hodgkinson Dies After Shooting At GOP Baseball Practice; Rep. Steve Scalise Is Wounded : The Two-Way : NPR Twitter What a story to wake up to this morning. The FBI is taking... Read More

  1. by   Lil Nel
    Forgot to mention that over a month ago, a young man entered a coffee shop that is part of Transylvania
    University in Lexington. He asked patrons if they were Republican or Democrat. He told one young woman
    who responded Republican: You are safe.

    He then went on to stab several people in the coffee shop. The latest violence may have been directed at
    members of Congress, but everyday folks have been feeling the violence for a while.
  2. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from Lil Nel
    Forgot to mention that over a month ago, a young man entered a coffee shop that is part of Transylvania
    University in Lexington. He asked patrons if they were Republican or Democrat. He told one young woman
    who responded Republican: You are safe.

    He then went on to stab several people in the coffee shop. The latest violence may have been directed at
    members of Congress, but everyday folks have been feeling the violence for a while.
    Which is exactly the point. No one in that coffee shop was responsible for being stabbed. That all falls on the person who did the stabbing.

    Was he mentally ill? I guess we'll find out.

    But blaming the victim here is like blaming a woman for wearing a tight dress with cleavage, drinking a margarita, being loud and boisterous in a bar for getting raped.

    My first post on this thread included a photo of the Democrats huddling together and praying after this shooting. I had an inkling of hope that the photo would calm us all down and help us to leave the rhetoric behind for a day or so.

    But what I've seen here and on Twitter and Facebook tells me that every time there is a shooting, stabbing, whatever . . . people jump on the political bandwagon instead of taking a few days off to reflect.

    It is a sad commentary on us all right now.

    And the TV and internet is going off at my house now for awhile. Too much ugliness.
  3. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    Are you kidding me? I never expected this kind of statement from you Elvish.
    You haven't been paying attention then, and no. I'm not kidding. It should go without saying that I hope the Congressman's condition improves and he makes a full recovery. It should go without saying that I don't believe in violence and wish no one had ever been shot at a Congressional baseball practice.

    Shootings were happening for a long time and were heartbreaking but Newtown was where I reached the end of my rope. Twenty first-graders died. Six year olds were pretending to be dead while listening to their classmates' blood gurgling in their throats as they were murdered. I had a second-grader at the time. I have a six-year-old now.

    The shaken feeling, the brokenness, the fear these Congresspeople are feeling, the people who continued to vote against sensible policies.....that's my feeling every g-d time a shooting happens. What makes me angriest is that these folks - meaning Congressional Republicans in general - have been unwilling to listen to constituents when it was OUR kids dying. When it was ME that was afraid to send my second-grader to school the Monday after Newtown happened. While it's been me worried for the last six years that every time the school system pops up on my caller ID that it's finally happened here, Congress has done nothing.

    So have chickens come home to roost? Yeah. They have. I'm only surprised that it's taken this long.

    It's possible to feel both revulsion at the act and revulsion for the policies and inaction that have made it an almost everyday occurrence in this country. The only industrialized country where this sh!t happens more days than it doesn't.

    So I'll return the favor....are you kidding me?
  4. by   toomuchbaloney
    I think it is important to note that apparently the killer had a known history of violence, particularly against women. I find it very telling that men can be repeatedly violent and yet can maintain a legal right to own and carry firearms.
  5. by   tntrn
    Quote from ElvishDNP
    You haven't been paying attention then, and no. I'm not kidding. It should go without saying that I hope the Congressman's condition improves and he makes a full recovery. It should go without saying that I don't believe in violence and wish no one had ever been shot at a Congressional baseball practice.

    Shootings were happening for a long time and were heartbreaking but Newtown was where I reached the end of my rope. Twenty first-graders died. Six year olds were pretending to be dead while listening to their classmates' blood gurgling in their throats as they were murdered. I had a second-grader at the time. I have a six-year-old now.

    The shaken feeling, the brokenness, the fear these Congresspeople are feeling, the people who continued to vote against sensible policies.....that's my feeling every g-d time a shooting happens. What makes me angriest is that these folks - meaning Congressional Republicans in general - have been unwilling to listen to constituents when it was OUR kids dying. When it was ME that was afraid to send my second-grader to school the Monday after Newtown happened. While it's been me worried for the last six years that every time the school system pops up on my caller ID that it's finally happened here, Congress has done nothing.

    So have chickens come home to roost? Yeah. They have. I'm only surprised that it's taken this long.

    It's possible to feel both revulsion at the act and revulsion for the policies and inaction that have made it an almost everyday occurrence in this country. The only industrialized country where this sh!t happens more days than it doesn't.

    So I'll return the favor....are you kidding me?

    So other than completely disarming the entire American population, which doesn't work as we have seen in Australia, what new laws or policies from those who make them, in your opinion, would have prevented Newtown, or any of so many other mass shootings, where the shooters passed background checks and bought those weapons legally, then went off somehow and used them to the detriment of many?
  6. by   ElvishDNP
    Apparently, gun regulation DOES work in Australia, because after the Port Arthur massacre, it was 20+ years between occurrences that in the USA happen every day. I'll take those odds.

    If you're really interested in what I have to say about gun regulation, you can search my posts. I've stated my piece many times over and am tired of the intellectual dishonesty or laziness or whatever you want to think it is that keeps you from listening every stinking time I say it.
  7. by   tntrn
    Quote from ElvishDNP
    Apparently, gun regulation DOES work in Australia, because after the Port Arthur massacre, it was 20+ years between occurrences that in the USA happen every day. I'll take those odds.

    If you're really interested in what I have to say about gun regulation, you can search my posts. I've stated my piece many times over and am tired of the intellectual dishonesty or laziness or whatever you want to think it is that keeps you from listening every stinking time I say it.
    The problem is that it doesn't eradicate violence.....attacks by knives, and anything that can be used as a weapon will be substituted. I read recently where Australia is asking for another "voluntary" gun take back....which tells me the problem isn't solved at all.
  8. by   toomuchbaloney
    Date rate victims don't make date rape drugs available to rapists, they don't make or decide any of the rules related to the issue.

    Legislators, however, do make the rules which dictate how available guns are. They do decide which behaviors or activities might restrict access to weapons.

    Those legislators and staff didn't deserve to be shot at, no one deserves that. However, their legislation around gun ownership affect the safety of ALL citizens, even them.
  9. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from tntrn
    The problem is that it doesn't eradicate violence.....attacks by knives, and anything that can be used as a weapon will be substituted. I read recently where Australia is asking for another "voluntary" gun take back....which tells me the problem isn't solved at all.
    How many mass shootings has Australia had in June? 2017? The last decade?

    What about Norway? Iceland? Finland? Sweden? Canada? Germany? Poland? Denmark?
  10. by   ElvishDNP
  11. by   ElvishDNP
    Quote from tntrn
    The problem is that it doesn't eradicate violence.....attacks by knives, and anything that can be used as a weapon will be substituted. I read recently where Australia is asking for another "voluntary" gun take back....which tells me the problem isn't solved at all.
    Electing a man who openly brags about grabbing women's genitalia doesn't help. Please don't go on about violence when you voted for and support this man.
  12. by   macawake
    Quote from azhiker96
    Virginia Governor McAuliffe made the claim that 93 million Americans are lost each year to gun violence. He repeated that claim but later corrected himself after being questioned by a reporter.
    No. The only sites I could find reporting about this (Fox, Breibart, Daily Caller) actually seem to say that McAuliffe initially said that 93 million lost their lives each day, and later corrected that.

    'This Isn't a Gun Issue': Loesch Rips McAuliffe For Gun Control Rhetoric After Shooting | Fox News Insider

    Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) said "there are too many guns on the street" and then erroneously claimed "93 million people" per day are killed in gun violence.
    I don't take anything the media reports as gospel truth (and to be honest, at least one of these sites in my opinion has credibility issues based on past performance), but I'm not interested enough in this to attempt to further fact check this claim. For the purpose of this discussion, I'm perfectly willing to assume that he did say it.

    93 million deaths per day would see the entire U.S. population wiped out in less than four days. Even if he had said years instead of days, that would only mean that the period of time required for the complete extinction of human life in the entire United States, would be slightly less than four years. That obviously doesn't mesh with reality, which both you and I can observe. You've been alive for more than four years (and certainly for more than four days), and you still have friends, coworkers and neighbors, don't you? That's all it takes to reject the 93 million statement, no further research necessary.

    Clearly what he said wasn't said with the intent to deceive, because even the most mathematically challenged individual above the age of ten, should be able to intuitively grasp that the numbers don't make sense. Generally when people try to sell a falsehood, they might augment or skew numbers/facts, interpret statistics in a way that supports their agenda or sneak one or two lies into an otherwise truthful statement. They seldom make up numbers that are wildly improbable and ridiculously easily debunked. These numbers are nowhere close to being believable, which either means he misspoke or is severely mathematically challenged. I'm guessing he misspoke.

    I suppose this sentiment also applies to Bobby Kennedy, MLK, Gabby Gifford, and many others. That doesn't justify violence, just pointing out a risk of being a public figure.
    I'm quite certain that Elvish wasn't trying to justify violence.

    Being a public figure, regardless of the individual poitician's voting history on a whole slew of different policy decisions, does come with risk attached. There is always the risk that unstable individuals might voice their objections to policy an a violent way. Sometimes policy actually result in more people with mental health issues not having access to the appropriate healthcare/support. Sometimes the violence towards politicians has nothing to do with politics/policy. It's just a famous/important/powerful figure and the offender wants his place in the history books. Motives vary.

    I'm guessing that the Elvish had specific policy in mind, and I'm guessing it's about "gun control" and recent changes in policy.

    If you or a politician for ideological reasons feel/decide that the 2nd Amendment trumps society's need to protect itself by denying mentally unstable individuals unfettered access to guns, then that's your/their decision. You can make that decision. But you have to be aware that you're weighing perceived benefits/ideology against risk. The decision comes with consequences. You might still feel comfortable with your decision and convinced that ideology is sufficiently important to justify the cost/risks. Just don't pretend that the cost isn't there.

    That's not at all the same as saying that people who enthusiastically support the 2nd Amendment deserve to be shot by an unhinged individual (they definitely don't), but it does mean that they ought to be aware that the risk of that ever happening, is likely a bit higher than it would have been with more restrictive gun laws in place. It is what it is.




    @ Avid reader

    The entire rest of the Western world is wrong and only Americans are right. That's why we are the only one with a second amendment, right?


    We don't really have this:

    a well funded arms manufacturing industry who have imposed their greed induced legislations
    (We do however export weapons to some shady countries, so we're not completely devoid of the mercenary & destructive gene). Just a bit more sophisticated and 21st century domestically. We've evolved a bit since our Viking days, I think perhaps it's time for some to move on from the Cowboy state of mind But, that's just my personal opinion.

    Gun violence in America isn't an anomaly, it's an expectable outcome.
    I absolutely agree. I'm about as surprised when reading about a mass shooting in the U.S. as I am when reading about a bombing in Iraq or workplace accidents with many casualties in certain Asian countries. It's what I expect. It's horrific and tragic, but one gets numb after a while when the same thing keeps happening over and over again. It's "normal". It's expected.

    Mass Shootings | Gun Violence Archive

    There was actually another shooting with several fatalities on the very same day as the incident in Alexandria.

    San Francisco UPS facility shooting: 4 dead including gunman, police say | Fox News

    A UPS employee opened fire in a San Francisco package delivery facility in a shooting spree that left four dead, including the gunman, on Wednesday, police and the company said.
    Mass shootings are frequent occurences. The one that lead to this thread being started is nowhere near the most serious one when it comes to human lives lost. Most shootings don't seem to merit a thread. Nor do most shootings (at least the other ones I've checked with comparable loss of life) seem to generate thousands of hateful, vile & intellectually defunct comments on various news sites and social media. (I'd be surprised if the disharmony isn't being nudged along and the flames stoked a bit by one or ten Russian leaning trolls).

    This shooting is clearly being politicized. The shooting is of course very serious in the sense that it targeted elected representatives of the people. Attacking elected officials is an attack on a free, democratic society. It's not good. But instead of being recognized as a reason for why the deep political divide needs to be bridged and common ground found, it's just being exploited to increase existing partisan hostility and acrimony.



    Edited to add:

    And once again I start writing a post and then go off and do something else before returning to complete it. (Elvish hadn't made the most recent posts when I started this "project" ).
    Last edit by macawake on Jun 15
  13. by   Lil Nel
    I have never blamed those who were shot on the baseball field for their injuries. Perhaps others have, but I haven't.

    But I completely agree with the poster who said after the Newtown massacre, and witnessing the unwillingness
    among Congressional members to do ANYTHING about the problem, well, quite frankly, I am done. If the
    massacre of young children can't get lawmakers to MOVE on an issue, then nothing will.

    When a society is awash in violence and guns, what do people expect? Again, none of us lives in vacuum. This
    latest killer didn't live in a vacuum.

    And when the so-called president of the United States advocates violence at his pep rallies, again, what do you
    EXPECT?

    This isn't rocket science, people.

Must Read Topics


close