RNs protest Gov. Snyder’s “Right to Work” corporate takeover - page 6

by herring_RN 5,231 Views | 110 Comments Guide

With their mouths taped shut, RNs protest Gov. Snyder’s “Right to Work” corporate takeover Michigan Nurses Association protests on the Capitol steps in Lansing against Michigan Right To Work legislation Monday, Dec. 10, 2012.... Read More


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    Michigan locals raise funds for 'hot dog guy' after union protesters destroy his suppliesRead more: Michigan locals raise funds for 'hot dog guy' after union protesters destroy his supplies | Fox News

    Clinton Tarver has been serving hot dogs to hungry locals in downtown Lansing, Mich., for the last five years, but a brush this week with a pro-union protest literally upended his small business in a matter of minutes.
    During a protest against right-to-work legislation in Michigan's capital, Tarver’s catering supplies were destroyed when demonstrators tore down the tent where he was serving and trampled his gear....
    He described the action that ensued as “violent.” Only minutes after he’d handed the two men their hot dogs, the pair tore down the tent, turned over his serving tables, smashed his hot dogs, tossed a cooler filled with sodas and spilled his chili.
    “I kept explaining that I was just here to do a job, that I wasn’t on anybody’s side, but when people started calling me racial slurs, my friend who works at the Capitol told me I had to get out of there, so I crawled out,” said Tarver, who is black.


    Read more: Michigan locals raise funds for 'hot dog guy' after union protesters destroy his supplies | Fox News
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    Are you posting this because you think this completely discredits the entire unionization effort by nurses? I have read some of your posts on other threads. If I didn't know better, I would think you are very young person. You have some very black and white thought processes, much like a young person. I understand the dark seduction of the simple answers the conservative side of most questions. Its really easy to say "If people would just accept personal responsibility, well, everything will just work out better."

    The truth is grownups know that problems are not that simple and for every one thing or person that bears responsibility, there is another. Unions ultimately protect nurses and their patients but yes, it costs money to join them. Some of the union processes do not benefit everyone the same. (For example, seniority is a one dimensional way to look at a nurse and it makes no sense.) On the other hand, without protections, we see constant turnover of staff at the bedside which helps no one and further and further investment into education that is costly and erodes a family's ability to advance (whereas 50 years ago, your employer trained you for a job in exchange for work and that includes nurses.)

    Walmart uses competitive business practices that are legal in Arkansas only to push out local competitors and then drives up prices. Their employees are underpaid and have little to no insurance coverage and thus end up in our emergency rooms. We see more and more working poor. The image of the lazy welfare queen is a myth.

    Hot dog guy probably didn't just innocently stand there and most of the protesters probably did not approve of the criminal destruction of property. I think most of us can see a much complex picture in our head than all of that.

    In fact, most of the time, its just not that simple.
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    Not all nurses agree on this point, obviously. To me this is merely the option to make a choice.

    It feels odd to read about all the horror stories of how hospitals abuse, mistreat, and make prisoner their employees while reading of union thugs and then read some media explain their actions, twisting them around to make them seem okey dokey.

    Obviously this is not every nurses' experience but if folks can tell their own side, it might help each of us understand a bit more where we are coming from.

    Exactly Who Does a Union Protect? :: Politichicks

    After all, the last thing any of us needs in our hospitals are thugs for nurses and healthcare workers.
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    In case someone needed an example from the link above, this is the story the writer herself linked:

    White House spokesman Jay Carney declined to condemn the increasing violence and threats by union members in Michigan, merely telling reporters Tuesday that “the president believes in debate that’s civil.”
    When asked by a reporter about a claim by Michigan state Democrat that “there will be blood” should Republicans pass a union-choice law in Michigan, Carney professed ignorance and then downplayed the comment.
    “I haven’t see those comments, and I’m not sure they mean what someone interprets them to mean,” he said.....

    .....Most Democrats oppose right-to-work laws because they tend to reduce the flow of workers’ monthly dues to unions. That financial cut weakens union leaders’ ability to shape elections and lobby against changes.....

    Read more: White House declines to condemn union violence in Michigan | The Daily Caller
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    Quote from VICEDRN
    Are you posting this because you think this completely discredits the entire unionization effort by nurses? I have read some of your posts on other threads. If I didn't know better, I would think you are very young person. You have some very black and white thought processes, much like a young person. .
    LOL - Jolie's just an old broad like me. A smart savvy business owner, not to mention very helpful mentor to nurses who have worked in the same areas she has worked.

    But it is nice to be "carded" when you are waaaay over 21 so I think she should just enjoy the compliment.
    tewdles likes this.
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    Quote from Spidey's mom
    Not all nurses agree on this point, obviously. To me this is merely the option to make a choice.

    It feels odd to read about all the horror stories of how hospitals abuse, mistreat, and make prisoner their employees while reading of union thugs and then read some media explain their actions, twisting them around to make them seem okey dokey.

    The argument that its a question of "choice" is a legal fallacy in my opinion. If the issue were smoking instead of unions, society would simply tell the smoker to select another hospital. Since the issue is unions and a pet problem of big business friendly conservatives, suddenly you can't restrict someone's right to work a particular place. You can choose to go work somewhere else that doesn't have a union!
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    Quote from Spidey's mom
    In case someone needed an example from the link above, this is the story the writer herself linked:


    Read more: White House declines to condemn union violence in Michigan | The Daily Caller
    Again, its not that simple. We simply can not expect the White House to involve itself in every protest, every act of violence in the name of social justice on the planet. I know that conservatives are usually hawkish and have a sense of justice on steroids but it isn't practical to expect a pronouncement of right and wrong from the White House every time some feels aggrieved or makes stupid political comments. Its a question, again, of being a grown up and facing reality. You can not have expectations that "its just that simple" and the President should apologize this group or that group because he would spend all day apologizing!
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    Quote from VICEDRN
    Again, its not that simple. We simply can not expect the White House to involve itself in every protest, every act of violence in the name of social justice on the planet. I know that conservatives are usually hawkish and have a sense of justice on steroids but it isn't practical to expect a pronouncement of right and wrong from the White House every time some feels aggrieved or makes stupid political comments. Its a question, again, of being a grown up and facing reality. You can not have expectations that "its just that simple" and the President should apologize this group or that group because he would spend all day apologizing!
    I'm not asking him apologize, but he can certainly condemn wrongdoing from those on the side of the unions.

    He jumps in the middle of issues he wants to jump into . .. .my first thought with your comment was his jumping in to condemn Cambridge police regarding Harvard Prof Gates arrest before all the facts were truly known. He jumps in when he wants to jump in.
    HM-8404 and Medic2RN like this.
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    Quote from Spidey's mom
    I'm not asking him apologize, but he can certainly condemn wrongdoing from those on the side of the unions.

    He jumps in the middle of issues he wants to jump into . .. .my first thought with your comment was his jumping in to condemn Cambridge police regarding Harvard Prof Gates arrest before all the facts were truly known. He jumps in when he wants to jump in.
    Actually, you make my point perfectly. It was a mistake for the President to involve himself in the Cambridge issue. It was misstep by a President with admittedly very little political experience (something that is both good and bad) and who was facing some very real pressure to respond to an incident that was racially charged as our country's first president of color. It was a difficult position and I think, from what I have read, he recognized his misstep.

    And yes, Presidents are also people. I recall Richard Nixon commenting on the guilt of Charles Manson. Obviously inappropriate but like every other American, he watched the trials. A presidency is colored by the man in office who yes, has opinions like the rest of us. Every president has his off color comment history.

    Your example is exactly why the President shouldn't involve himself. What if it turns out hot dog guy was sitting there heckling the protesters? What if he threw food at them and we find all that out in a few days? Then its just a bunch of guys behaving badly on both sides.

    Also, the fact that you cling to the apology issue proves my point about conservatives. You want justice EVERYWHERE even when its not the appropriate forum. The White House is the center of the executive branch. Hot dog guy will get his justice from the courthouses.
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    Quote from Spidey's mom
    I'm not asking him apologize, but he can certainly condemn wrongdoing from those on the side of the unions.

    He jumps in the middle of issues he wants to jump into . .. .my first thought with your comment was his jumping in to condemn Cambridge police regarding Harvard Prof Gates arrest before all the facts were truly known. He jumps in when he wants to jump in.
    And if he did jump in I would read from conservatives that it was a state issue and he needed to keep out of it.

    Perhaps he looks at things differently than when he had issues with the police MANY years ago. But if conservatives want to live in the past it really is nothing new.

    The issue of RTW states in my mind boils down to the fact that more people in those states need federal assistance in the form of food stamps, etc. I, for one, am tired of giving businesses welfare in the form of not having to pay a living wage while the CEO gets rich, and richer.

    I guess perhaps I am the reactionary. I would love to go back to the 1950's when the top tax rate for the super rich was above 90%, unions were stronger, we had infrastructure ongoing rather than fix bridges after they were condemned. There was a chicken in every pot, not just the rich folks. Neighbors who assisted others were just doing what was necessary. People were able to put aside money to purchase a home.

    Now if you want to do that you must move to the states where RTW is not in play. Those states have the highest needs and poorest education. If you have a chicken in the pot it is becasue you have used your food stamps very wisely, not because your wages have kept up with the prices charged to keep the CEOs in the style to which they have loved to become acustomed.
    tewdles likes this.


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