RNs protest Gov. Snyder's "Right to Work" corporate takeover - page 5

With their mouths taped shut, RNs protest Gov. Snyder's "Right to Work" corporate takeover Michigan Nurses Association protests on the Capitol steps in Lansing against Michigan Right To Work... Read More

  1. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    0
    Not all nurses agree on this point, obviously. To me this is merely the option to make a choice.

    It feels odd to read about all the horror stories of how hospitals abuse, mistreat, and make prisoner their employees while reading of union thugs and then read some media explain their actions, twisting them around to make them seem okey dokey.

    Obviously this is not every nurses' experience but if folks can tell their own side, it might help each of us understand a bit more where we are coming from.

    Exactly Who Does a Union Protect? :: Politichicks

    After all, the last thing any of us needs in our hospitals are thugs for nurses and healthcare workers.
  2. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    0
    In case someone needed an example from the link above, this is the story the writer herself linked:

    White House spokesman Jay Carney declined to condemn the increasing violence and threats by union members in Michigan, merely telling reporters Tuesday that “the president believes in debate that’s civil.”
    When asked by a reporter about a claim by Michigan state Democrat that “there will be blood” should Republicans pass a union-choice law in Michigan, Carney professed ignorance and then downplayed the comment.
    “I haven’t see those comments, and I’m not sure they mean what someone interprets them to mean,” he said.....

    .....Most Democrats oppose right-to-work laws because they tend to reduce the flow of workers’ monthly dues to unions. That financial cut weakens union leaders’ ability to shape elections and lobby against changes.....

    Read more: White House declines to condemn union violence in Michigan | The Daily Caller
  3. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    1
    Quote from VICEDRN
    Are you posting this because you think this completely discredits the entire unionization effort by nurses? I have read some of your posts on other threads. If I didn't know better, I would think you are very young person. You have some very black and white thought processes, much like a young person. .
    LOL - Jolie's just an old broad like me. A smart savvy business owner, not to mention very helpful mentor to nurses who have worked in the same areas she has worked.

    But it is nice to be "carded" when you are waaaay over 21 so I think she should just enjoy the compliment.
    tewdles likes this.
  4. Visit  VICEDRN profile page
    0
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    Not all nurses agree on this point, obviously. To me this is merely the option to make a choice.

    It feels odd to read about all the horror stories of how hospitals abuse, mistreat, and make prisoner their employees while reading of union thugs and then read some media explain their actions, twisting them around to make them seem okey dokey.

    The argument that its a question of "choice" is a legal fallacy in my opinion. If the issue were smoking instead of unions, society would simply tell the smoker to select another hospital. Since the issue is unions and a pet problem of big business friendly conservatives, suddenly you can't restrict someone's right to work a particular place. You can choose to go work somewhere else that doesn't have a union!
  5. Visit  VICEDRN profile page
    0
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    In case someone needed an example from the link above, this is the story the writer herself linked:


    Read more: White House declines to condemn union violence in Michigan | The Daily Caller
    Again, its not that simple. We simply can not expect the White House to involve itself in every protest, every act of violence in the name of social justice on the planet. I know that conservatives are usually hawkish and have a sense of justice on steroids but it isn't practical to expect a pronouncement of right and wrong from the White House every time some feels aggrieved or makes stupid political comments. Its a question, again, of being a grown up and facing reality. You can not have expectations that "its just that simple" and the President should apologize this group or that group because he would spend all day apologizing!
  6. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    2
    Quote from VICEDRN
    Again, its not that simple. We simply can not expect the White House to involve itself in every protest, every act of violence in the name of social justice on the planet. I know that conservatives are usually hawkish and have a sense of justice on steroids but it isn't practical to expect a pronouncement of right and wrong from the White House every time some feels aggrieved or makes stupid political comments. Its a question, again, of being a grown up and facing reality. You can not have expectations that "its just that simple" and the President should apologize this group or that group because he would spend all day apologizing!
    I'm not asking him apologize, but he can certainly condemn wrongdoing from those on the side of the unions.

    He jumps in the middle of issues he wants to jump into . .. .my first thought with your comment was his jumping in to condemn Cambridge police regarding Harvard Prof Gates arrest before all the facts were truly known. He jumps in when he wants to jump in.
    HM-8404 and Medic2RN like this.
  7. Visit  VICEDRN profile page
    0
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    I'm not asking him apologize, but he can certainly condemn wrongdoing from those on the side of the unions.

    He jumps in the middle of issues he wants to jump into . .. .my first thought with your comment was his jumping in to condemn Cambridge police regarding Harvard Prof Gates arrest before all the facts were truly known. He jumps in when he wants to jump in.
    Actually, you make my point perfectly. It was a mistake for the President to involve himself in the Cambridge issue. It was misstep by a President with admittedly very little political experience (something that is both good and bad) and who was facing some very real pressure to respond to an incident that was racially charged as our country's first president of color. It was a difficult position and I think, from what I have read, he recognized his misstep.

    And yes, Presidents are also people. I recall Richard Nixon commenting on the guilt of Charles Manson. Obviously inappropriate but like every other American, he watched the trials. A presidency is colored by the man in office who yes, has opinions like the rest of us. Every president has his off color comment history.

    Your example is exactly why the President shouldn't involve himself. What if it turns out hot dog guy was sitting there heckling the protesters? What if he threw food at them and we find all that out in a few days? Then its just a bunch of guys behaving badly on both sides.

    Also, the fact that you cling to the apology issue proves my point about conservatives. You want justice EVERYWHERE even when its not the appropriate forum. The White House is the center of the executive branch. Hot dog guy will get his justice from the courthouses.
  8. Visit  TopazLover profile page
    1
    Quote from Spidey's mom
    I'm not asking him apologize, but he can certainly condemn wrongdoing from those on the side of the unions.

    He jumps in the middle of issues he wants to jump into . .. .my first thought with your comment was his jumping in to condemn Cambridge police regarding Harvard Prof Gates arrest before all the facts were truly known. He jumps in when he wants to jump in.
    And if he did jump in I would read from conservatives that it was a state issue and he needed to keep out of it.

    Perhaps he looks at things differently than when he had issues with the police MANY years ago. But if conservatives want to live in the past it really is nothing new.

    The issue of RTW states in my mind boils down to the fact that more people in those states need federal assistance in the form of food stamps, etc. I, for one, am tired of giving businesses welfare in the form of not having to pay a living wage while the CEO gets rich, and richer.

    I guess perhaps I am the reactionary. I would love to go back to the 1950's when the top tax rate for the super rich was above 90%, unions were stronger, we had infrastructure ongoing rather than fix bridges after they were condemned. There was a chicken in every pot, not just the rich folks. Neighbors who assisted others were just doing what was necessary. People were able to put aside money to purchase a home.

    Now if you want to do that you must move to the states where RTW is not in play. Those states have the highest needs and poorest education. If you have a chicken in the pot it is becasue you have used your food stamps very wisely, not because your wages have kept up with the prices charged to keep the CEOs in the style to which they have loved to become acustomed.
    tewdles likes this.
  9. Visit  Spidey's mom profile page
    0
    Quote from VICEDRN
    Actually, you make my point perfectly. It was a mistake for the President to involve himself in the Cambridge issue. It was misstep by a President with admittedly very little political experience (something that is both good and bad) and who was facing some very real pressure to respond to an incident that was racially charged as our country's first president of color. It was a difficult position and I think, from what I have read, he recognized his misstep.

    And yes, Presidents are also people. I recall Richard Nixon commenting on the guilt of Charles Manson. Obviously inappropriate but like every other American, he watched the trials. A presidency is colored by the man in office who yes, has opinions like the rest of us. Every president has his off color comment history.

    Your example is exactly why the President shouldn't involve himself. What if it turns out hot dog guy was sitting there heckling the protesters? What if he threw food at them and we find all that out in a few days? Then its just a bunch of guys behaving badly on both sides.

    Also, the fact that you cling to the apology issue proves my point about conservatives. You want justice EVERYWHERE even when its not the appropriate forum. The White House is the center of the executive branch. Hot dog guy will get his justice from the courthouses.
    So, heckling and throwing food makes it ok for the other side to respond with violence? That sounds a bit like a woman who wears a low-cut top and high heels and goes to a bar with rowdy drunk men shouldn't cry rape . . .

    My dad was a died-in-the-wool union man, ironworker and Democrat. He became very disillusioned with the ways unions were working today. My step-dad was a truck driver in So. Cal and a member of the Teamsters - I'm not a neophyte when it comes to some thuggish behavior by union members.

    It looks pretty obvious to me that there is thuggish behavior going on - but if the prez wants to wait a bit before talking, I'm ok with that. As long as when it becomes obvious that this was thuggish behavior, he condemns it.

    And how am I clinging to the apology issue? I don't want him to apologize. I said that.
  10. Visit  herring_RN profile page
    1
    California ratio law written by and lobbied for by tens of thousands of organized nurses save lives.

    http://www.nursing.upenn.edu/chopr/D...fingRatios.pdf
    tewdles likes this.
  11. Visit  VICEDRN profile page
    2
    Actually, I am condemning both behaviors if they are present here. I am just saying it is not so simple that the president can just watch Fox News, believe every word of some guys story and apologize. We can't judge either especially not by something on Fox News website!And yes, you want the president to "talk" about it but its obvious you would expect some kind of condemnation. Again, it's really not the presidents job to respond to every incident in every community. Your history colors your opinion.
    herring_RN and TopazLover like this.
  12. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    2
    Ok, so there was some violence at a protest rally.... so that just discredits unions or something? Can we stick to the real issues here?

    Making Michigan (my state) a "right to work" state is just opening the door to low wages and a lower standard of living. Do you know what the current "right to work" states have in common? THEY ARE AMONG THE POOREST IN THE NATION.

    Of course companies are attracted.... because they can pay wages slightly higher than developing countries. The southern states have embraced anti-unionism, and is it a coincidence they have the lowest wages, lowest literacy, lowest life expectancy,
    worst benefits all in exchange for what?..... Jobs that pay sucky wages with sucky benefits?

    Where I work now (a government unionized facility) the LPNs make up to 27 dollars an hr. Our CNAs make up to 20. And our cost of living is comparable to the south. How many of you in "right to work" states can compete with that?

    Or should we just embrace our slide
    into the third world as long as it "attracts business"? You know what other country's policies attract manufacturing jobs? Mexico.
    Last edit by BrandonLPN on Dec 13, '12
    tewdles and TopazLover like this.
  13. Visit  TopazLover profile page
    2
    McDonald's $8.25 Man and $8.75 Million CEO Shows Pay Gap - Yahoo! Finance
    On a chilly November morning, Johnson interrupted his routine. He left his north side apartment and made his way to St. James Cathedral, just off Michigan Avenue, the so-called Magnificent Mile and heart of Chicago's high-end shopping district. There he gathered with other low-wage employees from Macy's Inc. (M), Eddie Bauer, Chipotle Mexican Grill Inc. (CMG) and Victoria's Secret.
    He'd heard about an effort to form the Workers Organizing Committee of Chicago, a group pushing for a $15-an-hour wage. Johnson joined despite McDonald's previous efforts to prevent unions, which have left workers with lingering fears. The Big Mac seller has employed a group of experienced managers and executives to parachute into locations where union activity is suspected. In 1998, after workers at a McDonald's in Ohio went on strike to protest unfair wages and working conditions, the leaders lost their jobs, said Sonny Nardi, president of Local 416 Teamsters union in Cleveland.

    Strikers Fired
    "They took a stance," Nardi said. And "the boys did get fired that started it."
    Johnson doesn't talk about the union at work because certain co-workers would tell his manager, he said, and he's afraid he would be reprimanded or even fired. Off the job, though, he's comfortable discussing it. "I'm trying to fight for what I believe in," he said.
    Asked about McDonald's history with organizing, Becca Hary, a company spokeswoman, said in an e-mail that "We don't have a corporate policy" on whether store workers are allowed to form unions.


    Interesting article.
    herring_RN and tewdles like this.


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