Obesity - Global Warming-deficit- Obamacare - page 13

As I plan to join an (ending) obesity campaign in the near future... I'd like to bring this topic up from a different Angle. I believe obesity is one of the most important epidemics facing our... Read More

  1. Visit  azhiker96 profile page
    0
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    How many of us saw this on FB recently?
    Target Apologizes for ‘Thigh Gap’ Photoshop Fail - ABC News
    What followed for me was an avalanche of examples of women's bodies being altered in the media to achieve some unrealistic version of beauty. Women are never thin enough or pretty enough it seems.

    I wonder, who decided that women were supposed to have thighs like young boys in order to be sexy or attractive?
    I did not see that, too funny. My guess is the decision was likely made by a woman like the lead character in "The Devil Wears Prada".
  2. Visit  toomuchbaloney profile page
    0
    Perhaps it is the "creative" work of a woman.
    My college reading clearly made me question such things in today's marketing world, that and Mad Men.

    I ran across this the other day and it brought back the pain of reading the book when I was young. Some of it seemed so tedious to me in the early 1970s

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/bo...pagewanted=all
  3. Visit  Delicate Flower profile page
    1
    Quote from azhiker96

    Likewise, obesity is linked to an increased risk of many ailments including DM II, HTN, and certain cancers. What Are the Health Risks of Overweight and Obesity? - NHLBI, NIH

    I've hiked with a guy who can leave 90 percent of the hikers on the trail in the dust. He is obese and probably has 75 more pounds on a 6 inch shorter frame than me. He's an anecdote. We don't give advice based on the outliers. Advice is based on peer reviewed studies and accepted practice.

    Of course we don't assume that thin people are healthy and obese are unhealthy. That's why we learn to do assessments and collect data. That is one thing that separates RNs from CNAs. We have the training and scope of practice to do assessments. My advice to a patient is based on their current health status and risk profile.
    I agree with what you said (essentially), but would also like to add:

    -The studies that link obesity/overweight with an increased risk of (blah, blah, whatever) are correlative. We all know from research methods class that correlation does not equal causation.
    -This means that there could be, in turn, a 3rd variable or multiple other variables mucking up the correlation between being fat and getting sick, such as...
    -eating habits
    -exercise
    -stress
    -sleep habits
    -dealing with the shame and stigma of being socially unacceptable (aka FAT)
    -and on and so forth
    -Therefore it follows that NO one can say that being fat causes any diseases. It makes much more sense to address other areas of concern in all people, fat and thin and in between, such as
    -Cholesterol
    -Blood sugar
    -Blood pressure
    The war on obesity is funded by diet corporations and their lobbyists. Throw away the BMI. You like studies? Here is one: Separate and combined associations of body-mass index... [Lancet. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

    Also, saying that your fat friend who is good at hiking is an outlier is kind of weird to me. Are you saying fat people who exercise are rare? Or fat people who are good at exercising are not the norm?

    The part of your post referring to RN's doing assessments was kind of confusing to me. Do you really think that nurses (or doctors, for that matter) throw away their pre(mis)conceptions and do unbiased assessments all or even most of the time? They do not. Ask any fat person who has been given a prescription for "lose weight" for any health ailment from knee pain to a sore throat.

    The biggest problem, though is this: Even if we knew without any doubt that being FAT causes DISEASE (direct causation), we still do not have a way to fix it. That's what I meant by saying that weight loss as a medical directive is not evidenced based medicine. It's sorta like telling a smoker that to cure their lung disease, they should try drinking alcohol.
    -The majority of people who attempt and succeed at weight loss are unable to maintain in the long term (> 5 years)
    -Many of these people gain even more weight and end up fatter than when they started
    -The process of losing and regaining weight (yo-yo dieting) is correlated with the same diseases as being fat is.
    -People who try dieting and exercising, but don't succeed at weight loss, are likely to give up those behaviors since they are told they have to lose weight to achieve health.

    Aknottedyarn, I agree with most of what you said, too, except for the part about "we all need to..." I think you meant "If we want to achieve the highest level of health possible for us, some things that might help are..." Not everybody cares about or prioritizes their health the same, and that's OK.
    VivaLasViejas likes this.
  4. Visit  toomuchbaloney profile page
    0
    Quote from Delicate Flower
    I agree with what you said (essentially), but would also like to add:

    -The studies that link obesity/overweight with an increased risk of (blah, blah, whatever) are correlative. We all know from research methods class that correlation does not equal causation.
    -This means that there could be, in turn, a 3rd variable or multiple other variables mucking up the correlation between being fat and getting sick, such as...
    -eating habits
    -exercise
    -stress
    -sleep habits
    -dealing with the shame and stigma of being socially unacceptable (aka FAT)
    -and on and so forth
    -Therefore it follows that NO one can say that being fat causes any diseases. It makes much more sense to address other areas of concern in all people, fat and thin and in between, such as
    -Cholesterol
    -Blood sugar
    -Blood pressure
    The war on obesity is funded by diet corporations and their lobbyists. Throw away the BMI. You like studies? Here is one: Separate and combined associations of body-mass index... [Lancet. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

    Also, saying that your fat friend who is good at hiking is an outlier is kind of weird to me. Are you saying fat people who exercise are rare? Or fat people who are good at exercising are not the norm?

    The part of your post referring to RN's doing assessments was kind of confusing to me. Do you really think that nurses (or doctors, for that matter) throw away their pre(mis)conceptions and do unbiased assessments all or even most of the time? They do not. Ask any fat person who has been given a prescription for "lose weight" for any health ailment from knee pain to a sore throat.

    The biggest problem, though is this: Even if we knew without any doubt that being FAT causes DISEASE (direct causation), we still do not have a way to fix it. That's what I meant by saying that weight loss as a medical directive is not evidenced based medicine. It's sorta like telling a smoker that to cure their lung disease, they should try drinking alcohol.
    -The majority of people who attempt and succeed at weight loss are unable to maintain in the long term (> 5 years)
    -Many of these people gain even more weight and end up fatter than when they started
    -The process of losing and regaining weight (yo-yo dieting) is correlated with the same diseases as being fat is.
    -People who try dieting and exercising, but don't succeed at weight loss, are likely to give up those behaviors since they are told they have to lose weight to achieve health.

    Aknottedyarn, I agree with most of what you said, too, except for the part about "we all need to..." I think you meant "If we want to achieve the highest level of health possible for us, some things that might help are..." Not everybody cares about or prioritizes their health the same, and that's OK.
    Thoughtful and well stated, IMHO
  5. Visit  azhiker96 profile page
    2
    Quote from Delicate Flower
    I agree with what you said (essentially), but would also like to add:

    -The studies that link obesity/overweight with an increased risk of (blah, blah, whatever) are correlative. We all know from research methods class that correlation does not equal causation.
    -This means that there could be, in turn, a 3rd variable or multiple other variables mucking up the correlation between being fat and getting sick, such as...
    -eating habits
    -exercise
    -stress
    -sleep habits
    -dealing with the shame and stigma of being socially unacceptable (aka FAT)
    -and on and so forth
    -Therefore it follows that NO one can say that being fat causes any diseases.

    Also, saying that your fat friend who is good at hiking is an outlier is kind of weird to me. Are you saying fat people who exercise are rare? Or fat people who are good at exercising are not the norm?
    Quite a bit of medicine involves correlations, smoking for example. Smoking is associated with higher risk of lung cancer, stroke, and COPD. However, it is not causative. If we ignore the correlations associated with obesity then there is no need to advice people to stop smoking either.

    I do agree that we need to stop using BMI. It was developed for populations and was never intended for assessing individuals. It is meaningless when applied to individuals. A pro wrestler with 10% body fat may have the same BMI as a person with 50% body fat.
    The two probably do not have similar risks of developing chronic disease.

    I mentioned my hiking friend as an outlier because most chronic hikers that I know are height/weight proportionate. You'll find that in the running population also. Many people choose to start regular walking, running, hiking and other physical activity in an effort to burn off excess stored calories. Hiking burns a lot of calories and unless they are replaced weight loss is inevitable.
    toomuchbaloney and herring_RN like this.
  6. Visit  toomuchbaloney profile page
    2
    Quote from azhiker96
    Quite a bit of medicine involves correlations, smoking for example. Smoking is associated with higher risk of lung cancer, stroke, and COPD. However, it is not causative. If we ignore the correlations associated with obesity then there is no need to advice people to stop smoking either.

    I do agree that we need to stop using BMI. It was developed for populations and was never intended for assessing individuals. It is meaningless when applied to individuals. A pro wrestler with 10% body fat may have the same BMI as a person with 50% body fat.
    The two probably do not have similar risks of developing chronic disease.

    I mentioned my hiking friend as an outlier because most chronic hikers that I know are height/weight proportionate. You'll find that in the running population also. Many people choose to start regular walking, running, hiking and other physical activity in an effort to burn off excess stored calories. Hiking burns a lot of calories and unless they are replaced weight loss is inevitable.
    The BMI is a worthless tool for women, in general, and should be thrown out.
    VivaLasViejas and tntrn like this.
  7. Visit  tntrn profile page
    3
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    The BMI is a worthless tool for women, in general, and should be thrown out.

    I so totally agree with that.
  8. Visit  VivaLasViejas profile page
    1
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    The BMI is a worthless tool for women, in general, and should be thrown out.
    I TOTALLY agree!
    herring_RN likes this.
  9. Visit  tntrn profile page
    0
    A friend of mine posted this on FB just today.

    What Happens Next: A Gallimaufry | Female Bodies: A Weighty Issue
  10. Visit  Delicate Flower profile page
    2
    Many people choose to start regular walking, running, hiking and other physical activity in an effort to burn off excess stored calories. Hiking burns a lot of calories and unless they are replaced weight loss is inevitable.[/QUOTE]

    Maybe, maybe not. Metabolism varies widely among individuals. Prior history of weight loss and regain (multipled x number of times) screws with metabolism. It's also genetic. Weight loss is a (usually temporary) side effect of exercise. Even if activity levels, calorie burning, and calorie intake remain the same a few months or years into an exercise regimen, weight may increase back to baseline because the metabolism adjusts. BUT BUT BUT....even if weight is regained, the health benefits are still there.

    I would theorize that if people do take up hiking to lose weight, and they fail to lose weight, or if they lose and then regain the weight, they may be discouraged and stop hiking. If people start hiking and are able to lose weight, they may be encouraged and keep hiking. So your "chronic" hikers may be the ones who keep hiking because they do lose weight. They may in fact be the outliers.

    It's not as simple as calories in, calories out. And what I keep harping on, because it's sort of a personal mission for me (if you can't tell yet) is that health is what matters, not weight. Why can't people choose to start regular walking, running, hiking, and other physicial activity for their health, and not worry about weight at all?

    Hiker, this is not directed at you, just a general tirade. The problem with the false notion that WEIGHT LOSS = health improvement for obese people is that it takes health out of the equation completely. Why don't we advise fat people to smoke crack? It wil help them lose weight. That may sound ridiculous, yes, but consider the fact that we DO tell fat people to do stuff like eat a diet of microwaved processed pre-packaged meals, drink reconstituted soy protein shakes, and do whatever else it takes to lose weight "in the name of health."
    toomuchbaloney and StNeotser like this.


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