Are Obama and Warren right about Economics?Register Today!
- by Spidey's mom Jul 24, '12Because we've got so many threads going on the politics of the day and this issue comes up on all of them, I decided to start a thread strictly devoted to Obama and Warren's idea that we do not achieve things in life without the government. Here's a couple of links to start it out.
Warren's speech and Obama's speech are embedded in the link below as I cannot figure out how to put the videos in myself since the AN change:
- I not going to read your links. With that caveat I can say my mind is made up and I agree with them both, so no need to read anything else. But I appreciate that not all opinions are the same as my own.
Here's my take about my own personal accomplishments. I was an honor student...the government didn't due that. I went to college and worked full time and worked my but off and made the deans list when I got my associates degree...the government didn't do that. I did the same getting my BSN...graduating summa cum laude while working full time...the government didn't do that. I wake up every day, work hard, very hard...the government doesn't do that for me. I bought my own house with my own money that I earn, paying off a loan from a private bank, cutting my own grass...the government did not buy my house. I drive to work in a car that I bought...not the government.
I do that and I'm proud of my accomplishments.
That said, the school I graduated from honors with was a public school built with tax payer money, with teachers whom worked for the State. The community college was a public school. The BSN program was at a private Christian school based in a hospital that is not for profit and is subsidized by medicare/medicaid payments from the government. My house relies on a public system to give me water, collect my trash, and upkeep the road I live on. I would call 911 and a public servant would help me without condition.
I can't make it exclusively on my own and I didn't arrive here on my own. The same can be anyone in my opinion.
I think in no way does Mr. Obama or Ms. Warren's statement belittle personal accomplishment or a war on business.
- Jul 24, '12 by tntrnHere is the deal. None of the things provided "by the government" could have been provided had not the people who have businesses or employment and paid taxes so that the roads, the schools could be built and maintained. The government cant do squat without the taxpayers.
- Quote from tntrn100% true.Here is the deal. None of the things provided "by the government" could have been provided had not the people who have businesses or employment and paid taxes so that the roads, the schools could be built and maintained. The government cant do squat without the taxpayers.
We pay taxes, the government provides services and builds, and we do great things as a nation both collectively and individually.
I'll concede that it started with individual businesses paying taxes first. And the point is what?
The government even creates a lot of wealthy people...the people of Boeing for example that have Republicans screaming "don't cut jobs to the defense industry"...but still individuals are building great things like planes and bombs, bridges, dams etc.
- Jul 24, '12 by heronOK, I'll bite
I believe that the relationship between the entrepreneur/small business and the larger community ... both consumers and the taxpayers ... is a symbiotic one. I also believe that this is the point that Obama and Warren are trying to make.
The entrepreneur/small businessperson provides the ideas, innovation, talent and sweat equity that are the seeds of a successful business. The community provides the soil and the compost those seeds need to survive and thrive. Without the community, the business is dead in the water. Without the businesses, the community is just dead dirt.
...To see just how much American businesses benefit from the “system” that Obama extols, it’s instructive to examine countries where the system—and in particular government—isn’t doing its job terribly well.
Take Sub-Saharan Africa. A big reason the region remains so poor, with an average income only a little above $2,000 per head, is because the private sector is so weak. There just aren’t many large, profitable enterprises around. According to business surveys conducted by the World Bank over the last decade, the average value added per worker in companies in Tanzania or Uganda is below $4,000 a year. Even in Nigeria, it stands only a little above $6,000 a year. Compare that to about $63,885 of value added per person employed in the U.S.
...Why the big difference? It’s not as if no one in Africa is willing to take risks, or dream, or build. It is that creating a successful company is a lot harder south of the Sahara because the basic infrastructure that underpins business growth is creaking or collapsed. Electricity is one example. In many African countries, more than half of all companies own generators because the public supply is so unreliable.
...Poor transport infrastructure also hurts African businesses. Ramachandran and Gelb report that the vast majority of business owners don’t even consider selling their goods outside local markets because it is so hard to move stuff around. ...And that’s just shipping; across Africa, goods sit on the docks for weeks at a time because of slow customs clearance.
...There’s a way to accelerate that process, of course: Around two thirds of companies in Kenya report paying bribes to government officials to get things done.
...Beyond infrastructure and weak regulatory systems, businesses in Africa face severe shortages of trained, educated, healthy workers—the result of weak public education and health systems.
“If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else did that.” Jack Gilchrist, the owner of Gilchrist Metal Fabricating in Hudson, New Hampshire, incredulously asks, “My father’s hands didn’t build this company? My hands didn’t build this company? My son’s hands aren’t building this company? …Through hard work and a little bit of luck, we built this business. Why are you demonizing us for it?”
The New Hampshire Union Leader reports today that Gilchrist benefited from millions of dollars of government loans and contracts to get his business on its feet:In 1999, Gilchrist Metal received $800,000 in tax-exempt revenue bonds issued by the New Hampshire Business Finance Authority “to set up a second manufacturing plant and purchase equipment to produce high definition television broadcasting equipment,” according to a New Hampshire Union Leader report at the time…Gilchrist wisely took advantage of these funds, which help small businesses like his survive in their early years. He also took a U.S. Small Business Administration loan in the late 1980s totaling “somewhere south of” $500,000, plus matching funds from the federally-funded New England Trade Adjustment Assistance Center.
Last year, Gilchrist Metal also received two U.S. Navy sub-contracts totaling about $83,000 and a smaller $5,600 Coast Guard contract in 2008, according to a government web site that tracks spending.
In a lesson on basic government spending that Romney himself could learn from, Gilchrist succinctly explained: “I’m not going to turn a blind eye because the money came from the government. As far as I’m concerned, I’m getting some of my tax money back. I’m not stupid, I’m not going to say ‘no.’ Shame on me if I didn’t use what’s available.”
So ... would Gilchrist have been able to do without that taxpayer support? Possibly ... private venture capital or standard bank loans might have been available ... or not ... depending on whether the business looked likely to turn a profit fast enough for them. But what would he have done without the workforce and infrastructure he didn't have to build along with his business?
- Jul 24, '12 by tntrnQuote from TweetyThe point is that without the taxs and the people that pay them, we would have no government. So obama and warren have it exactly backwards. The businesses it possible for government to do what it does. Too bad the government does such a bad job of it.100% true.We pay taxes, the government provides services and builds, and we do great things as a nation both collectively and individually.I'll concede that it started with individual businesses paying taxes first. And the point is what? The government even creates a lot of wealthy people...the people of Boeing for example that have Republicans screaming "don't cut jobs to the defense industry"...but still individuals are building great things like planes and bombs, bridges, dams etc.
- Quote from tntrnI can agree with you except that there is no backwards when it's a two way street. Obviously you need people paying taxes and you need a government responsible with those taxes to provide services so that people can continue to pay taxes. It's a two way street..or circle if you will...no backwards at all.The point is that without the taxs and the people that pay them, we would have no government. So obama and warren have it exactly backwards. The businesses it possible for government to do what it does. Too bad the government does such a bad job of it.
In my opinion.
- How adorable is it to use little children to further your agenda?
On Tuesday, "Fox and Friends" co-host Brian Kilmeade turned to four-year old Eliza and seven-year old Clara Sutton to ask if they had government help when they founded their lemonade stand.
- Let's face it, many people that receive tax breaks, which includes lots of businesses, especially huge favored by the politicians because they make campaign contributions can't make the claim they do it on their own. In my opinion...some people don't count tax breaks as part of this issue, but I do.
Left wing press alert:
The up-by-his-bootstraps businessman who stars in an ad for Republican hopeful Mitt Romney seems to have built his business through government-sponsored loans, putting a dent in the campaign’s attack on President Barack Obama’s saying to business owners, “you didn’t get there on your own.”“My father’s hands didn’t build this company? My hands didn’t build this company? My son’s hands aren’t building this company?” New Hampshire businessman Jack Gilchrist, president of Gilchrist Metal, asks in the ad that’s been making waves since last week.
Reporting by The New Hampshire Union Leader disputed this claim by looking into Gilchrist’s history, revealing that he took over $1 million in government loans since the 1980s, including $800,000 in tax-exempt bonds issued by the New Hampshire Business Finance Authority to build a new manufacturing plant and buy equipment. Gilchrist also admitted to the paper that he took a U.S. Small Business Administration loan of “somewhere south of” $500,000 in the 1980s, and said that to this day about 10 percent of his business comes from defense-related projects.
‘On his own’ Romney ad star took over $1 million in government loans | The Raw Story