Here's What's in the Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012 - page 3

by Joe V Admin

In this new White House White Board, Brian Deese, the Deputy Director of the National Economic Council, explains what the new agreement to extend tax cuts for the middle class means for the economy and how it met President... Read More


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    There is a common misconception as to just how much this benefits the American economy. In reality nearly a majority of the deductions for mortgage interest are for persons or households whom are very well off to wealthy.
    Depends on your definition of wealthy I guess. You can only deduct up to a 1,000,000 in loan value. If you have a home mortgage that is 1,1000,000 you can only deduct the interest up to 1,000,000.

    IMO this will cause housing values to drop. If I was looking at a 500,000 home, but if I was not able to deduct interest, I would buy a smaller home as I would rather pay down debt.

    Considering how inflated home prices are in many areas of this country that is not such a bad thing.
    Housing prices are already almost bottomed out. This will cause a new bottom.
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    I won't pretend to understand how our budget works, and maybe all this will turn out to positively affect our economy. I just don't know. But one thing that I will stand by-and I know most middle class, and ALL lower class will disagree with me on this, and mostly for selfish reasons-is that I think it is WRONG to force the wealthy to pay more than they already are. Here's why;

    Lets take for example a citizen who makes $10million a year in taxable income (and to keep the numbers simple to work with this is after deductions....aaahhh deductions. I wish I had some deductions. But being single and a non custodial parent, as well as a renter I don't. Well, other than losses on the stocks that I pay that nice 15% (now used to pay since it's gonna go up) I was paying for capitol gains on). They paid $3.5M in 2012 on that. That means that their efforts contributed $3.5M in federal taxes to our economy. well, in 2013 that same $10M is going to cost them $3.96M!

    On the other extreme, we have citizens from the middle class down (When Mitt Romney mentioned that 47% of us do not pay taxes, as un-PC as that may have been, it IS true [actually it was more like 46.4%, but close enough]. Yes, we all pay them on payday, but at the end of the year those 47% [ ok, ok, 46.4%...] actually get it all back and THEN SOME in the form of credits) who pay nothing. Literally nothing!

    The President was Harping for the last 4 years that he "Just wants the wealthiest of us to pay their fair share," yet I just don't get how it is fair to ask them to pay even more when nearly half of us pay nothing. How is that "Fair?"

    And about those capitol gains taxes going up...I believe this is a mistake. Capitol gains taxes are different from income taxes because, on the tax payer's way of earning those capitol gains, he or she is risking their money to do so. We could very well lose all of it! The lower 15% capitol gains tax compared to the higher income tax rate was there to encourage investment. Well, now there is less encouragement for us to risk our money...
    HM-8404, CrufflerJJ, Jolie, and 3 others like this.
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    PRICHARILLAisMISSED I couldn't agree with you more. "Fair share" has got to be the worst term used to describe the new tax plan. Let's call it what it really is - redistribution of wealth.

    Increasing the capital gains tax is ridiculous. I have already paid almost 50% in income taxes on the money that I use to invest and now they want more because I am a successful investor.

    It seriously amazes me how the government is broke. Every single cent made in this country is taxed at least once, if not multiple times.

    Let's say I am in the top tax bracket. For simplicity's sake lets say my paycheck is $1,000 (I know it would be more but stick with me)

    $1,000 after federal, SS, Medicare, State, etc. is $500.

    I take that $500 and buy a TV. In my state I pay 5.6% in sales tax. The TV seller makes a $50.00 commission off of that sale (and pays about $15.00 dollars in taxes. The wholesaler makes $200 and uses that money to pay himself in which he will pay taxes and his employees (who will also pay taxes on that money because it will be their income)and the manufacturer gets the rest and, again he is paying taxes on that income. The manufacturer will also pay his costs, but those costs are spent on supplies that were needed to build the TV. These supplies were made by people in factories by people who will now get paid their income (and pay taxes on that income if they are in the US). Let's not forget about the retail outlet, wholesaler, and supplier who also pay property taxes on the establishments they use for the businesses. Any money that is paid out to the list of people that I mentioned that is not taxed is used to buy goods and services that are - taxed!


    Again, how in the world is the government broke? I know, they spend more than they take in. Wish I could do that.
    Last edit by msn10 on Jan 11, '13 : Reason: spelling
    CrufflerJJ and Jolie like this.
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    It is true that I believe it is okay for my wealthy relative to pay more and for my 95 year old grandmother to pay nothing in taxes. It is true that I believe that the wealthiest should pay more in taxes to help the working poor get a leg up in life by letting them pay little to no taxes. The GIs returning home should get a tax break, etc. These are a large portion of the people that Romney was talking about, they are essential and important to this country, at least IMHO
    herring_RN likes this.
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    Now why cant government explain policy like this. Instead of using "legalese" that requires lawyers to decipher. 
    herring_RN likes this.
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    It is true that I believe it is okay for my wealthy relative to pay more and for my 95 year old grandmother to pay nothing in taxes. It is true that I believe that the wealthiest should pay more in taxes to help the working poor get a leg up in life by letting them pay little to no taxes. The GIs returning home should get a tax break, etc. These are a large portion of the people that Romney was talking about, they are essential and important to this country, at least IMHO
    The rich already do pay more - much more.

    I think that the poor elderly should not have to pay taxes, and I believe that the vets should get more than a tax break as they give so much (I have so many vets in my family that I have lost count) but I do not believe Romney or anyone else who opposes raising taxes was targeting these people.

    The people I am talking about are those that want the government to take care of them, you are a nurse, I am sure you have met many of them. The people who are 'disabled' and on Medicaid such as the 21-year old male trauma victim on Friday night who has a nice truck, enough money to out drinking and wrap his car around a light pole, but won't have the money to pay his hospital bills. How does anyone who has 2 arms, 2 legs, and is physically healthy get Medicaid?


    This is a video that went viral a couple of weeks ago. Classic entitlement.
    evolutionary Politics Revolutionary Politics Judge Judy - Here s Who You Sup.flv - YouTube
    CrufflerJJ, Jolie, and herring_RN like this.
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    I actually spent most of my hospital days working in the PICU, NICU, ER, and high risk L&D.

    I took care of too many young men and women who drank, drove, and then crashed their cars. I took care of lots of premies who were victims of their mother's substance abuse, or lack of OB care.

    From there I went to community health where I cared for nothing but the uninsured and under insured. 100% of our clients were poor, very poor, or homeless. Most of them worked but did not have insurance through their employment.

    Now I work in hospice where I care for people who are dying from their cancers or their heart failure or their cirrhosis, etc. Some of them are dying because of the poor choices they made along the way.

    Perhaps I have met many people over the years who have gamed the "system"...it is likely, I suppose, as I have been doing this for almost 35 years. Mostly I have seen people who are hurting, who are disadvantaged in multiple ways, who are not certain what they need or how to get it, and are not interested in cheating anyone. I certainly am aware that there are bad people in this world who will take advantage when ever they can...I am also certain that not all of them are poor.

    For me, providing my patients with unconditional regard, the best of my advocacy, and honesty works best and provides me with my greatest reward in my profession. I do get annoyed with and irritated by some people who demonstrate a sense of entitlement, but then again, not all of those people are poor.

    As for how able bodied people get disability? My guess is that they have an unscrupulous health care provider that will game the system with them...
    herring_RN likes this.
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    Nah, they just learn it from the others while in the waiting room at your public health clinic, or in line to get their methadone, or in line at the convenience store while picking up their beer and cigarettes. Or perhaps they just go on a myriad of government websites and see that they are not getting their fair shake in life because the rich have stolen from them.
    Quote from tewdles
    As for how able bodied people get disability? My guess is that they have an unscrupulous health care provider that will game the system with them...
    HM-8404 and CrufflerJJ like this.
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    I would like to see the top figure cut off for Social Security much higher. Just over $100,00 is not the same as even a few years ago. With CEOs making millions, and in some cases sucking the life out of a company and emptying the retirements of employees (think Twinkies) it does not make sense to give them a break. They have already taken from the people who will need SS in the future.

    I think $200,000 is more in line with today's pay of the upper end of workers.
    tewdles and herring_RN like this.
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    Perhaps I have met many people over the years who have gamed the "system"...it is likely, I suppose, as I have been doing this for almost 35 years. Mostly I have seen people who are hurting, who are disadvantaged in multiple ways, who are not certain what they need or how to get it, and are not interested in cheating anyone.
    Years ago, I believe that was the case as well. People had pride and going on government assistance was an embarrassment to many. I too spent my bedside nursing days in an inner city hospital in the most dangerous city in the state. I saw everything, more than most people should. I saw victims of poverty and horrible crimes, and I had no problem helping them as much as I could.

    However, in today's world I believe we are seeing more takers than makers. I am not talking about hospital patients. No matter what brings them there, I will take care of them. Rather, I am talking about our society as a whole. Who do we want to be as a nation? What do we want to teach our children? We need to promote upward mobility, not dependence. There are too many people who do know how to work the system now, and yes, not all of them are poor. We cannot just keep raising taxes, extending unemployment indefinitely, and writing out stimulus checks. We need to cut spending and cut off the unscrupulous takers. We need to jail some bankers and allow small businesses to hire without a mountain of mandates. The rise in taxes is not affecting the multibillionaires in this country, their accountants will make sure of that. But when we start telling ourselves that those that make over $200,000 are 'rich' then we do not understand the system. IMHO we should have a 15% flat tax without deductions. It would fairer across the board.


    HM-8404 likes this.


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