FactCheck: Veep debate violations

  1. 1
    FactCheck: Veep debate violations

    Ryan at one point ground out a collection of shopworn misstatements about the health care law that we’ve had to rebut time and again, claiming “20 million people … are projected to lose their health insurance” (not true), that premiums have gone up $3,000 (no, they haven’t) and that 7.4 million seniors “are going to lose” Medicare Advantage plans (maybe, but they’d still be covered by traditional Medicare).


    And both Biden and Ryan continued to twist the facts about Romney’s tax plan. Biden again misrepresented the findings of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, and Ryan repeated a misleading claim that “six studies have verified” that the plan is mathematically possible.
    herring_RN likes this.
  2. 32 Comments so far...

  3. 4
    I have found this election cycle so filled with deception and down right lies that I fear many will get so disillusioned as to stay home rather than vote for any candidate. I place a great deal of the blame for this on the SuperPACs. This does not excuse the individuals for lying. The point I see is that we are bombarded with lies from the SuperPAC ads so often that it is becoming increasingly difficult to listen to any discussions.

    I do look forward to the next debate. I wish we could trust the candidates to be truthful. Since we cannot, we have to make decisions based on other criteria. For me it is that "trickle down" has never worked for me.

    Getting out the vote will be increasingly difficult if the populace believes it does not matter who one votes for. Some believe their vote has been compromised by the GOP efforts. Others believe that we have no clue about individual's beliefs and therefore cannot make an informed decision.

    Voting is critical. I don't care if people are voting the way I am. It is the process of voting that is important and can be lost in the face of the decisions of fact checking ad nausea.

    I applaud the fact that Biden called Ryan on so many of his lies. It was disruptive and would not have been necessary if so much fiction were not brought into the debates, in general. If Romney continues with his belief that it is OK to lie I do hope Obama calls him on his lies.

    We deserve to be given facts rather than lies in order to make an informed decision.
    NRSKarenRN, nrsang97, tewdles, and 1 other like this.
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    I'm sorry, Karen, but your "fact check" is wrong. Ryan's statement on the increased cost of yearly family premiums since the passage of Obamacare is right on target, and your own statement acknowledges that millions of seniors stand to lose Medicare Advantage coverage. If Ryan had claimed that those seniors would lose Medicare coverage altogether, then you might have a point, but that is not what you have indicated.

    When he ran for president in 2008, Obama promised he would lower health insurance premiums for families by $2,500 in his first term. But earlier this month, the Kaiser Family Foundation released its annual Employer Health Benefits Survey showing that average family health insurance premiums have gone up by more than $2,500 ($2,730 to be exact), not down. Then, this week, the Health Care Cost Institute released its annual Health Care Cost and Utilization Report showing that, after briefly slowing down due to the recession in 2009 and 2010, overall health care spending rose 4.6 percent last year, far outpacing both inflation and wages.

    Obamacare isn't reducing health care costs | WashingtonExaminer.com


    During his first run for president, Barack Obama made one very specific promise to voters: He would cut health insurance premiums for families by $2,500, and do so in his first term.
    But it turns out that family premiums have increased by more than $3,000 since Obama's vow, according to the latest annual Kaiser Family Foundation employee health benefits survey.
    Premiums for employer-provided family coverage rose $3,065 — 24% — from 2008 to 2012, the Kaiser survey found. Even if you start counting in 2009, premiums have climbed $2,370.


    Read More At IBD: Health Premiums Up $3,000 Under Obama; He Had Vowed $2,500 Cut - Investors.com
    jeannepaul and Spidey's mom like this.
  5. 1
    I would agree with Jolie that it's a big fail of Obama and one of his many broken promises.

    Any moron could have told him the catapulting insurance premiums that have been happening the last 20 years are still going to continue to rise. Obama's policies aren't necessarily responsible for this (many would disagree with that http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/c...0-premiums.pdf), it would have happened anyway, but saying he could lower it was a lie of the devil in his ear and out his mouth.

    We're in the process of picking our benefit packages for the next year where I work and premiums aren't going up at all. I'm very sure where I work the premiums have risen only twice the last four years and certainly not 24%, but that doesn't mean Jolie's posted overall stats are false.

    http://moneyland.time.com/2009/09/16...ast-ten-years/
    Any effort to drive down health care costs are going to fail as our population of aging, obese and unhealthy people continue to gobble up any gains me make to control costs. That unfortunately is the reality that Obama and Romney/Ryan have to face. It would be nice if they were honest about that.

    I've heard many conservative friends grumble "why should I have to pay for the health care of everyone?" and my answer is this "has your insurance premiums gone up the last 10 years"...the answer is invariably yes and we all are paying for the healthcare of everyone else through those rising premiums. Some of those people are on medications and seeing several doctors and using up more in health care costs than their premiums, but it can be argued that someone else is picking up the tab for them even though they pay insurance premiums.

    If we contributing half as much energy into taking care of ourselves and the general population, through prevention, nutrition and wellness screenings our health care costs would drop because people would be healthy. That's our only solution.

    Romney/Ryan can't offer anything better. Getting rid of Obamacare as they promised isn't going to lower health care costs to society. Like it or not health care costs are going to rise, the uninsured are going to be a huge cost burden (for lack of a better word) that drives costs up. Society is still going to pay one way or another.

    That's probably all I'm going to say. I added healthcare to guns and abortion to what I don't talk about. LOL
    Last edit by Tweety on Oct 14, '12
    man-nurse2b likes this.
  6. 2
    Quote from Jolie
    I'm sorry, Karen, but your "fact check" is wrong. Ryan's statement on the increased cost of yearly family premiums since the passage of Obamacare is right on target,.
    Premiums for employer-provided family coverage rose $3,065 — 24% — from 2008 to 2012, the Kaiser survey found. Even if you start counting in 2009, premiums have climbed $2,370.


    .
    That's why I fact check "FactCheck" . . .
    jeannepaul and azhiker96 like this.
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    Family policy average cost per year
    1999 was $5,791.00
    2000 was $6,438.00
    2001 was $7,061.00
    2002 was $8,003.00
    ]2003 was $9,317.00
    2004 was 9,950
    2008 was $12,298.00
    ]2009 was $13,027.00
    2010 was $13,871.00
    2011 was $15,073.00
    ]2012 is $15,745.00

    Individual policy average cost per year was

    1999 was $2,196.00
    2000 was $2,471.00
    2001 was $2,689.00
    2002 was $3,083.00
    2003 was $3,383.00
    2004 was $3,695.00
    2005 was $4,024.00
    2006 was $4,242.00
    2007 was $4,479.00
    2008 was $4,704
    2009 was $4,669.00
    2010 was $4,940.00
    2011 was $5,429.00
    2012 is $5,615.00
    http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/health-insurance-premiums.aspx

    http://ehbs.kff.org/?page=charts&id=1&sn=6&p=1

    http://ehbs.kff.org/2009.html?
    CFID=569830542&CFTOKEN=58181568&jsessionid=6030e05 436680ea1d94f262237413019114a

    http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2011/september/27/employer-health-coverage-survey-shows-employer-spending-spike.aspx
    tewdles likes this.
  8. 1
    Quote from herring_RN
    Family policy average cost per year
    1999 was $5,791.00
    2000 was $6,438.00
    2001 was $7,061.00
    2002 was $8,003.00
    ]2003 was $9,317.00
    2004 was 9,950
    2008 was $12,298.00
    ]2009 was $13,027.00
    2010 was $13,871.00
    2011 was $15,073.00
    ]2012 is $15,745.00

    Individual policy average cost per year was

    1999 was $2,196.00
    2000 was $2,471.00
    2001 was $2,689.00
    2002 was $3,083.00
    2003 was $3,383.00
    2004 was $3,695.00
    2005 was $4,024.00
    2006 was $4,242.00
    2007 was $4,479.00
    2008 was $4,704
    2009 was $4,669.00
    2010 was $4,940.00
    2011 was $5,429.00
    2012 is $5,615.00
    http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/health-insurance-premiums.aspx

    http://ehbs.kff.org/?page=charts&id=1&sn=6&p=1

    http://ehbs.kff.org/2009.html?
    CFID=569830542&CFTOKEN=58181568&jsessionid=6030e05 436680ea1d94f262237413019114a

    http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2011/september/27/employer-health-coverage-survey-shows-employer-spending-spike.aspx
    Clearly those figures show that since Obama took office they rose the $3,000 a year Ryan claims. Those are some pretty high costs. According to that a policy for me is $467 a month and I pay about a 1/3rd of that, so I suppose I should thank my employer. But $15,745 for a family a year??? But considering the trillions we spend on healthcare, I suppose that isn't too far fetched.


    That said rates rose pretty steeply prior to Obamacare being implemented, so one has to wonder. They rose pretty sharply during the Bush years as well without a hint of Obamacare.
    Last edit by Tweety on Oct 14, '12
    herring_RN likes this.
  9. 1
    Hopefully we will see these rate increases flatten now that the insurance companies are mandated to cap their "administrative" costs.

    Only the very out of touch politician cannot see that the average American cannot continue to afford health care that is completely vested in the capitalist market.
    herring_RN likes this.
  10. 2
    Quote from tewdles
    Hopefully we will see these rate increases flatten now that the insurance companies are mandated to cap their "administrative" costs.

    Only the very out of touch politician cannot see that the average American cannot continue to afford health care that is completely vested in the capitalist market.
    If the explosion in healthcare costs is attributable primarily to administrative greed of private insurers, how do you explain the unaffordability of Medicare and Medicaid, which we are told are extremely cost-efficient in their overhead?
    jeannepaul and Spidey's mom like this.
  11. 3
    Quote from Jolie
    If the explosion in healthcare costs is attributable primarily to administrative greed of private insurers, how do you explain the unaffordability of Medicare and Medicaid, which we are told are extremely cost-efficient in their overhead?
    I can't speak for tewdles, but I didn't see in the post you quoted tewdles placing the blame for "the explosion in health care costs" on the administrative costs of insurance companies, but the exploding costs of health insurance. I think there's a difference there.

    The rising health care costs of the last 20 years is a bit more complicated than the "administrative" costs of insurance companies.

    To be fair the rising insurance costs are a response to rising health care costs. Mandating insurance companies is only a start. We have to wonder how and why our health care costs are the highest in the world. Part of it is because we have the best technology and high research costs. Part of it is the high cost of the uninsured. Part of the reason is we have a culture of treating sickness, and we're sicker, rather than promoting health. There are many reasons.

    Presidents have talked about it, writers have written about it, but no one can seem to do anything about or offer up solutions that politicians and capitalists are willing to implement. Again, Romney and Ryan, and Obama, in my opinion aren't going to stop this trend, or help. I hope I'm wrong.
    Last edit by Tweety on Oct 14, '12
    azhiker96, tewdles, and herring_RN like this.


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