ANTIFA - page 8

As if the current violence everywhere ANTIFA goes is not enough, they are now planning for nationwide protests to oust Trump/Pence. ANTIFA Plan Nationwide Riots On Nov. 4th To Forcibly Remove Trump... Read More

  1. by   toomuchbaloney
    Sean Adl-Tabatabai is sort of infamous in the American fake news industry.

    Thank you for showing us.
  2. by   Farawyn
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    I am anti fascist.
    It is a requirement for a patriot.
    Where is the LOVE button?

    (Don't answer that...)
  3. by   nursej22
    Quote from Farawyn
    Where is the LOVE button?

    (Don't answer that...)
    Beverage alert!
  4. by   MunoRN
    Quote from elkpark
    To be fair and accurate, the Daily Show clip identifies several groups within the larger Antifa movement, one of which engages in violence and is described by Noah as "vegan ISIS." While I am not advocating violence by anyone, I don't have any problem saying that, sure, there are a few "bad apples" within the Antifa movement. Many on the right are quick to point out that most of the people on their side are not engaging in violence, just a few "bad apples," and their entire group should not be characterized or judged by the actions of a few bad actors. Well, to the extent that is true, it's no less true for the Left. And I'm pretty sure there were a whole lot more people on the KKK/Neo-Nazi side in Charlottesville willing-if-not-eager to engage in violence than there were counter-protestors. I think a lot of the fuss about this (apart from the people desperately attempting to establish a false equivalence between the two "sides" because it makes them seem less heinous and despicable) is simply that people are shocked that anyone on the Left is actually fighting back.
    Except that one group is basically the group that defines what ANTIFA is. Separate from Antifa, there is a much larger group of people who are non-violently opposed to white nationalism and fascism, these are not the people who have come to define Antifa. I would argue that the best way to further the views of anti-facism is to make sure we separate ourselves who are often just using this as an excuse to act violently.

    There is a fairly scientific way to see what images are most relevant to a word:
    ANTIFA - Google Search
    I should point out that one of the images I fake.
  5. by   MunoRN
    This is from the NYC Antifa chapter's website:
  6. by   toomuchbaloney
    Yep.
    There are laws against violence. If antifa break laws they will be arrested.

    Meanwhile, antifa has no history of violence that can compare to the history of American white supremacists or fascists anywhere. Not even close. Comparing antifa to terrorist or hate groups like the KKK or neonazis is like comparing my kitchen trash can to a dumpster that's full and on fire.
  7. by   MunoRN
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    Yep.
    There are laws against violence. If antifa break laws they will be arrested.

    Meanwhile, antifa has no history of violence that can compare to the history of American white supremacists or fascists anywhere. Not even close. Comparing antifa to terrorist or hate groups like the KKK or neonazis is like comparing my kitchen trash can to a dumpster that's full and on fire.

    I don't think violence to further a set of ideals only becomes bad when you reach some sort of quantity of violence threshold, and that white supremacists have exceeded that threshold and Antifa, making Antifa's violence somehow more acceptable. All terrorism is bad.
  8. by   toomuchbaloney
    Yeah.
    Clearly, I personally don't consider antifa to be a terrorist or hate group. I consider them to be a group opposed to fascism, in all forms, in the USA. They advertise to the fascist groups that they will meet their violence with violence. When violence erupts, the violent people get arrested. Violence is not the answer.

    The only thing targeted by antifa is fascism. There are no rallies. There are no marches intending to intimidate. There are counter marches, protests of the fascist and racist narrative.

    I don't read of antifa carrying out terrorist activities. They are called this because the fascists demand it and they have a voice in this country.
  9. by   Cowboyardee
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    Yeah.
    Clearly, I personally don't consider antifa to be a terrorist or hate group. I consider them to be a group opposed to fascism, in all forms, in the USA. They advertise to the fascist groups that they will meet their violence with violence. When violence erupts, the violent people get arrested. Violence is not the answer.
    For whatever its worth, the tactics Antifa employs are designed to perpetrate violence while avoiding arrest. That is essentially the whole point of the black bloc - maintaining anonymity and the safety in numbers while forming a mob and engaging in illegal activities. Same reason the KKK wear hoods - covering your face in public isn't illegal and neither is assembling large groups in public, but doing both make it a whole lot easier for members of the mob to get away with illegal acts. (Again, I don't mean to say that antifa are as bad as the KKK; just that both groups use anonymity and mob tactics to perpetrate violence while avoiding arrest)


    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    The only thing targeted by antifa is fascism. There are no rallies. There are no marches intending to intimidate. There are counter marches, protests of the fascist and racist narrative.
    Again, if they only showed up at white supremacist or neo Nazi marches, there wouldn't be all that much to object to. The reason why liberals like me object to Antifa is that they define everything to the right of Bill Clinton as fascist and then meet them with violence. They have a well documented history of showing up on college campuses in resistance to all manners of right wing speakers, and using real violence on those occasions. They're not using a realistic definition of fascism.


    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    I don't read of antifa carrying out terrorist activities. They are called this because the fascists demand it and they have a voice in this country.
    For whatever it's worth, I agree. They are not terrorists. Their violence consists of beatings, throwing junk at opposing crowds and police, and destruction of property. Terrorism used to mean a good deal more than that, and imply a very different intention.

    Antifa aren't terrorists. They're idiot kids so bent on seeing themselves as heroes fighting in the street against fascism and a corrupt system that they don't give a flying **** that their tactics rally support for those they oppose while doing nothing at all to actually advance a more just and equitable society. Conservatives in the US already have a paranoia problem - I don't see how providing sound evidence that the mainstream left really is out to get them helps. It only drives the centrist conservatives further right. Antifa are LARPing a socialist revolution while our political system gets more polarized and dysfunctional, and justifying political violence not only from the left but also from the right wingers they oppose - all for the childish joy of occasionally punching someone they dislike and patting each other on the back for it.
  10. by   toomuchbaloney
    Yep.
    Antifa breaks the law with violence and they get arrested. Hopefully the fascists and white supremacists get arrested to.

    This may be the first time in our history that white supremacists and their violent tactics of intimidation and oppression feel unwelcome and unsafe in American streets. There were times when they marched and chanted by the thousands. Now they are not so confident.

    A violent agenda is never optimal. Antifa's work behind the scenes is making this happen. Those who choose violence will pay a price for that choice.
  11. by   Cowboyardee
    Quote from toomuchbaloney
    Yep.
    Antifa breaks the law with violence and they get arrested. Hopefully the fascists and white supremacists get arrested to.

    This may be the first time in our history that white supremacists and their violent tactics of intimidation and oppression feel unwelcome and unsafe in American streets. There were times when they marched and chanted by the thousands. Now they are not so confident.

    A violent agenda is never optimal. Antifa's work behind the scenes is making this happen. Those who choose violence will pay a price for that choice.
    I think you could break down the overwhelming majority of the behind the scenes work done by Antifa into a few categories:
    - Wallpapering, graffiti, tearing down opposing factions' wallpapering, etc. Meh. Probably doesn't accomplish much, probably doesn't hurt much either.
    - Doxxing white supremacists and supporters of far right ideologies. I'm not positive how I feel about this. It is likely one of Antifa's redeeming activities.
    - Conducting anonymous online threat and harassment campaigns against 'fascists.' This is probably, again, counterproductive. While most reasonable people don't really care if Richard Spencer gets tons of nasty emails or whatever, Antifa are notorious for their overly broad working definition of what fascism is. And harassing more mainstream right wing figures mostly serves to make them more sympathetic among the general public. In other words, Milo Yiannopoulis may be a ****-stirring toad, but sending him death threats is neither called for nor politically advantageous for those who oppose his views.
    - Harassing venue owners that consider hosting right wing speakers, events, guests, etc, as a part of their commitment to de-platforming their opposition. Again, this is probably mostly counterproductive. While it's not as bad as violently attacking these events once the initial attempt at de-platforming fails (which, of course, Antifa also does), it still probably on balance mostly generates sympathy for right wing causes and cohesion among right wing groups.

    I encourage people to read the following:
    https://itsgoingdown.org/wp-content/...fa-revised.pdf
    Best way to understand them is to read their own materials. Keep a critical mindset. This is how they want to see themselves and how they want others to see them; even then, they support violent opposition to all manner of right wing groups who may not be engaging in any form of violence themselves, consider the police and the state their enemies, and admit to anarchist and anarcho-communist ties.
  12. by   Cowboyardee
    And for further reading, I also suggest the article below, which I think sums up some of the problems and ethical and political problems with Antifa pretty nicely. It's from the Atlantic, which is by no means a right-leaning journal.
    Distinguishing Between Antifa, the KKK, and Black Lives Matter - The Atlantic

    Here's a quote from the article:

    "The initiation of extralegal street violence by self-appointed judges in masks is ethically wrong, legally wrong, and in the case of Antifa, tactically idiotic. (I can think of nothing more likely to contribute to Donald Trump’s reelection than roving bands of masked, violent leftists attacking not only Nazis carrying swastikas in the streets, but journalists covering protests, or crowds at Ann Coulter or Milo Yiannopolous speeches.)"
    Last edit by Cowboyardee on Sep 14 : Reason: quote added
  13. by   toomuchbaloney
    Read those things already, but thanks for the links.

    They may not be effective or smart, but in my view, they are also not terrorists or a hate group. Unless countering and shouting down hate groups and hate speech is somehow the same as hate speech.

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