ANTIFA - page 4

As if the current violence everywhere ANTIFA goes is not enough, they are now planning for nationwide protests to oust Trump/Pence. ANTIFA Plan Nationwide Riots On Nov. 4th To Forcibly Remove Trump... Read More

  1. by   Cowboyardee
    Quote from Lil Nel
    This is from a Washington Post tick-tock piece of last night's Trump rally in Phoenix. I encourage all to read it. It is interesting and it just amazed me how Trump supporters really do live in an alternate reality. Some of them actually believe he is trying to unite the nation. Huh? And some actually believe he loves this country. Again, huh?

    Outside the rally, antifa member Samad Agwani, 25, stood behind barricades that separated protesters from supporters. Dressed head to toe in black, he was there “to make sure that white nationalists and Nazis and white supremacists are uncomfortable.”
    Following Charlottesville, he said antifa has become misunderstood and that the violence seen earlier this month doesn’t “reflect the group’s cause.” That includes letting the president know that many people oppose how his actions perpetuated racism and prejudice that polarize the country, he said.
    “The political atmosphere right now just makes me a little uncomfortable to be a minority,” said Agwani, a social-media content moderator who lives in Phoenix and is of Indian descent. “I feel like I have to be a little more careful in public because — as was demonstrated in Charlottesville — there are a lot of people coming out as openly white supremacists, openly Nazi, openly white nationalists, and I feel that they do pose an actual threat to minorities, including myself.”
    The quote bolded above is pretty much just an outright lie. Part of the problem with this whole discussion is that most Americans only really became familiar with Antifa after the Charlottesville debacle, and so they view Antifa as a group who primarily go out and fight against violent white supremacists as a kind of counter-balance to their (the white supremacists') violence and intimidation tactics. And if that was in fact their primary M.O., I would be a big fan of the group, since I agree with most reasonable people that marching, chanting, armed white supremacists are scum and should be met with pushback.

    But in truth, antifa is not really a single organization, nor is it a new group of people coming together to fight a resurgent white power movement. It's mainly just the rebranded name that the American extreme left has recently taken to calling itself when they show up in public to partake in acts of dubious legality. The politics of the group are solidly anarchist, and largely anarcho-communist - if you google image search Antifa at any of their recent showings, you will invariably see a ton of the various anarchist flags, with the anaracho-communists being probably the most common. The recent emphasis on fighting fascism along with newly adopting the (old in Europe) name 'antifa' is an obvious reaction of the trump administration's increased reliance on xenophobia as a political tool, but the groups existed before they were called antifa, and their politics and methods go far beyond just showing up when neo-nazis light up their torches.

    Until the last few bouts of genuine hate groups marching organizing public rallies, antifa has largely been showing up to threaten violent protest and riot in response to right wing speakers - Milo Yiannopoulos, Ann Coulter, Charles Murray and others (mind you, I'm not endorsing these speakers, but I do oppose political violence in response to political speech, even dumb political speech). Before that, you had the same protesters carrying the same flags and using the same tactics breaking windows, vandalizing storefronts, and chucking molotov cocktails at political rallies, WTO meetings, etc. They didn't call themselves antifa at the time, but we're talking about the same organizations and the same political agenda.

    The point is that antifa has always been violent; they've always been illiberal, responding violently not only to other violence but also to opposing political opinions, organizations they just don't like, etc.

    Of course, they're not as bad as Neo Nazis. But that's not a trophy I'd hang on the wall.
  2. by   azhiker96
    I don't understand why some support this type of behavior. A man is trying to engage in dialog and gets physically attacked.

    Man arrested for sucker punch of blackTrump supporter at Laguna Beach rally - Story | KTTV
  3. by   azhiker96
    Quote from Lil Nel

    I did notice photographs of demonstrators in Phoenix last night posing with in their camo with their beloved assault weapons and ammunition. Anybody know if those were Trump supporters or leftists?

    Again, if you show up armed like you are ready to go to war, then don't be surprised when you are met with violence.
    It would most likely be the John Brown gun club, leftists. The Secret Service didn't allow guns or other weapons in the Rally.
  4. by   Lil Nel
    Actually, azhiker96, when I saw their picture, I am pretty sure they were the Militia that also likes to hang around at these events.

    I also take exception with Cowboyardee comments regarding Antifa.

    First, nobody can call an individual's personal experience a lie. How do you negate an experience that isn't your own to negate? The person quoted in the article is merely providing anecdotal evidence. Nothing more, and nothing less. This is THEIR experience.

    Yes, I understand that Antifa isn't an organized group, and yes, they first appeared in Europe during the 1970s in response to a rise in Fascism. But the folks who show up at WTO meetings (like the one held in Seattle several years ago) and G20 summits are, as I stated before, Anarchists. And they aren't the same thing as Antifa.

    Here's how I look at it, if I was broken down along the side of the road in eastern Kentucky, and had no cell phone access, and a car stopped to help me and it was filled with White Nationalists, I would let them drive on by. Same thing for a car filled with Militia folks. But I would take my chances with Antifa.

    It's been reported that an attendee at the rally called for John McCain to die. One of McCain's daughters has responded to that comment. It seems as though Trump just brings out the best in people, doesn't he (written with tongue firmly planted in cheek)?
  5. by   azhiker96
    Lil Nel, even if I saw the picture I wouldn't be able to tell right wing from left without talking to them or at least carefully studying context. The John Brown gun club likes to play army dress up just as much as the various militias.

    Extrapolating one person's rude comments or action as a representation of the whole group is wrong. Even Missouri Democrats know that.
  6. by   Lil Nel
    I had never heard of the John Brown Gun Club, azhiker96. So I Googled them. Interesting stuff. It seems as though they generally wear red bandanas, or brown shirts. And they are affiliated with the Red Neck Revolt. Again, interesting stuff.

    My comment was directed at Trump. The person made the comment about McCain because Trump attacked him during the rally. And yes, I truly believe Trump brings out the worst in people, not the best. But that is just his style.
  7. by   elkpark
    Quote from azhiker96
    I don't understand why some support this type of behavior. A man is trying to engage in dialog and gets physically attacked.

    Man arrested for sucker punch of blackTrump supporter at Laguna Beach rally - Story | KTTV
    Yes, that's terrible. Reminds me of the Trump supporters who beat up protestors at Trump rallies (while Trump egged them on from the podium) ... I see that you're working really hard here to create an equivalency between the two "sides;" what is your agenda, exactly?
  8. by   Lil Nel
    Don't forget Elkpark, that Trump was also trying to appeal to bases lowest instincts at the Phoenix rally by attacking the press. He called them "sick" individuals and questioned their patriotism by saying he didn't think they loved our country.

    In response, the crowd taunted and jeered the media. That is why I choke whenever I read comments made by the rabid base as to how Trump is "trying to unite the country." Nothing could be farther from the truth.

    His attacks on the media, LGBT community, etc. are a daily embarrassment. His behavior continues to prove him unfit for office.

    The sooner the blight is removed from office, the better for all of us. Unless of course, you enjoy being served up a daily dose of hatred.
  9. by   Cowboyardee
    Quote from Lil Nel

    I also take exception with Cowboyardee comments regarding Antifa.

    First, nobody can call an individual's personal experience a lie. How do you negate an experience that isn't your own to negate? The person quoted in the article is merely providing anecdotal evidence. Nothing more, and nothing less. This is THEIR experience.
    I don't really even understand your objection. I'm saying the fella was either lying (which is, face it, pretty freakin likely) or plain incorrect about the group and too new and naive to antifa to know any better. His subjective experience doesn't actually matter. Find me an example of antifa showing up in mass anywhere where there wasn't violence, criminal mischief, and/or civil unrest. Just one example.

    Quote from Lil Nel


    Yes, I understand that Antifa isn't an organized group, and yes, they first appeared in Europe during the 1970s in response to a rise in Fascism. But the folks who show up at WTO meetings (like the one held in Seattle several years ago) and G20 summits are, as I stated before, Anarchists. And they aren't the same thing as Antifa.
    You say this based on what? Personal experience? Faith?

    I know people involved in these movements - had friends get involved (and get in trouble) with them. Antifa consists largely of the same agitators and the same organizers and the same tactics that you saw protesting G20 meetings and the like as explicitly anarchist demonstrations. The main thing they've changed is the branding.

    It's true that the increased pot-stirring since Trump's election has led more people to look to join these guys, especially college kids. Many of whom are not necessarily anarchists. It's possible that eventually the older-school anarchists, communists, and angry-at-everything fantasy radicals who organize and evangelize to the rest of the movement will be pushed aside by new members whose only real interest is to resist white supremacist groups. This would be a great thing in my view, especially if they toned down the rhetoric pushing for preemptive violence. But it hasn't happened yet, best I can tell.


    Quote from Lil Nel
    Here's how I look at it, if I was broken down along the side of the road in eastern Kentucky, and had no cell phone access, and a car stopped to help me and it was filled with White Nationalists, I would let them drive on by. Same thing for a car filled with Militia folks. But I would take my chances with Antifa.
    I readily agree that antifa ain't as bad as white nationalists (and frankly, I don't know enough about the militia folks to speak, but I certainly agree that they appear worrisome). Still, I like to point out that the common factor in all of the world's horrifically oppressive regimes has not been where it falls on the scale of left- or right-leaning politics. The common factor is violent authoritarianism. History is rife with examples of a scared public running from one violent authoritarian faction into the arms of another one. Antifa doesn't have much real political power. Yet. We're better off staying that way. Let the Antifa guys call Triple A for you, if you must. But don't encourage em to give you a lift.
  10. by   azhiker96
    Quote from elkpark
    Yes, that's terrible. Reminds me of the Trump supporters who beat up protestors at Trump rallies (while Trump egged them on from the podium) ... I see that you're working really hard here to create an equivalency between the two "sides;" what is your agenda, exactly?
    Not working hard at all. It is just as easy to find videos of violence from the left as from the right. I know seeing this may be uncomfortable to folks who think they hold the moral high ground.

    My hope, or agenda as you put it, is to not see political rallies devolve further into violence. I know at least one person here who has seen and acknowledged agitators at a rally. They came on Bart, did their work and then left on Bart. The peaceful protesters were left behind to feel the reaction of the police.
  11. by   toomuchbaloney
    Fascism is Un American.
    Attacking the free press is Un American.
    Flying the swastika is un American.
    The KKK and white supremacists are violent hate groups.

    In the USA today, antifa is none of those things.
  12. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from Cowboyardee
    I don't really even understand your objection. I'm saying the fella was either lying (which is, face it, pretty freakin likely) or plain incorrect about the group and too new and naive to antifa to know any better. His subjective experience doesn't actually matter. Find me an example of antifa showing up in mass anywhere where there wasn't violence, criminal mischief, and/or civil unrest. Just one example.



    You say this based on what? Personal experience? Faith?

    I know people involved in these movements - had friends get involved (and get in trouble) with them. Antifa consists largely of the same agitators and the same organizers and the same tactics that you saw protesting G20 meetings and the like as explicitly anarchist demonstrations. The main thing they've changed is the branding.

    It's true that the increased pot-stirring since Trump's election has led more people to look to join these guys, especially college kids. Many of whom are not necessarily anarchists. It's possible that eventually the older-school anarchists, communists, and angry-at-everything fantasy radicals who organize and evangelize to the rest of the movement will be pushed aside by new members whose only real interest is to resist white supremacist groups. This would be a great thing in my view, especially if they toned down the rhetoric pushing for preemptive violence. But it hasn't happened yet, best I can tell.




    I readily agree that antifa ain't as bad as white nationalists (and frankly, I don't know enough about the militia folks to speak, but I certainly agree that they appear worrisome). Still, I like to point out that the common factor in all of the world's horrifically oppressive regimes has not been where it falls on the scale of left- or right-leaning politics. The common factor is violent authoritarianism. History is rife with examples of a scared public running from one violent authoritarian faction into the arms of another one. Antifa doesn't have much real political power. Yet. We're better off staying that way. Let the Antifa guys call Triple A for you, if you must. But don't encourage em to give you a lift.
    My objection is stated very well in the first paragraph that you quoted. Please re-read it. His subjective experience may not matter to YOU, but it is his experience not YOURS, so your opinion on it doesn't matter.

    Nobody on this site is going to change my mind about Antifa. They don't advocate the death or extinction of Gays, Muslims, Jews, Blacks, Latinos (or anybody else referred to as "other."). They simply meet violence, with violence. They protect others being attacked by violent groups (watch video provided by Herring regarding Antifa. Cornel West of Harvard University credits Antifa with SAVING his life against White Nationalists). I've got no problem with that.

    No, Antifa doesn't follow the non-violent route of MLK. So what?

    Again, if a small group of Bostonians hadn't thrown ROCKS and snowballs at British soldiers outside the of the Custom House, we never would have had the American revolution.

    The time has come for citizens to decide whose side are they on? You can't tiptoe down the middle. I am on the side of social justice. If Antifa wants to protect those protesting peacefully against the violence of White Nationalists when the police department stands down and does nothing (as in Charlottesville) so what? Not a problem for me. I am not a White Nationalist.

    The real question, and I have brought it up several times, is why was the police department in Charlottesville incompetent?

    There was very little violence in Boston last weekend. The BPD knew what their job was, and they did it well.
  13. by   Lil Nel
    Quote from azhiker96
    Not working hard at all. It is just as easy to find videos of violence from the left as from the right. I know seeing this may be uncomfortable to folks who think they hold the moral high ground.

    My hope, or agenda as you put it, is to not see political rallies devolve further into violence. I know at least one person here who has seen and acknowledged agitators at a rally. They came on Bart, did their work and then left on Bart. The peaceful protesters were left behind to feel the reaction of the police.
    Yes, and there are overwhelming numbers of examples of right-wing violence directed at minorities. As far as I know, there are still no arrests in the bombing of the mosque in Minnesota. And remember the guy who killed the Good Samaritans on the train out west? Right-wing extremist who recently attended a "free speech" rally.

    I remember what you are referring to regarding BART. But again, these people are often Anarchists, and they aren't Antifa.

    If you are hoping for violence to subside at protests, or Trump rallies, I think you are going to be disappointed. Trump has encouraged, and approved of all of the de facto racists to come out of the woodwork.

    If you are looking for a solution to the problem, you might want to contact the WH.

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