Women In The Military

  1. LET ME START OUT BY SAYING I AM NOT TRYING TO BE CONTROVERSIAL JUST WANT A GOOD HEALTH DISCUSSION. PLEASE


    I personally feel women should be given equall opportunity in the military for any and all positions including combat positions if they meet the same minimum standards as the men. with out lowering the bar at all. women want equal right so they should be treated equally.

    but on the other hand I would be distracted by women in the military as I would feel I had to protect them and keep them safe. since I was brought up kind of old school

    what does everyone else think?
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  2. 105 Comments

  3. by   renerian
    With all the cover ups about military men raping military women I would not want my dtr there in that way. I also worry that I now have friends, a couple, they both enlisted, now they both are serving and their kids are with their grandparents. What if both parents are killed? I think it is horrible.

    I just don't think it is good to risk losing both parents if they were to both enlist or if the draft starts and both would get called.

    Just something to think about. Mark I think it is a good thread. Lets see what happens LOL..

    renerian
  4. by   kmchugh
    A lesson we should have learned from our previous administration is that the military does not exist as a vehicle for social change. There are ingrained behaviors in our society, one of which is the protection of women. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, simply that it exists. Other countries have experimented with having women in combat positions, notably Israel. In almost every case, this change has found to be disruptive to military readiness, and has either been drastically altered or abandoned. As a society, I don't think we are ready for this, and using the military as the vehicle for social change is not a good idea, when combat effectiveness is negatively impacted.

    Kevin McHugh
  5. by   OC_An Khe
    The US Military to be truly successful must be comprised of and reflect the population as a whole of the USA. That said the only apprhension I would have would be the direct combat arms, i.e. infantry armor and artillery. But do remain open minded on the subject.
    One does need to read the history of women serving in the Military, from the Revolutionary War on, and the decorations they have won. Before you come to a final conclusion on this matter.
    The US Military has always been utilized as an agent of change in American society. Sometimes successfully and other times not so successfully. It executes change best over time.
  6. by   Gomer
    Guys, you need to get over the idea of protecting the poor weak female. That's caveman mentality. Gals, you need to get over the "I'm a princess, waiting for my prince to save me". Israel has the right idea -- draft everyone
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Originally posted by Gomer
    Guys, you need to get over the idea of protecting the poor weak female. That's caveman mentality. Gals, you need to get over the "I'm a princess, waiting for my prince to save me". Israel has the right idea -- draft everyone
    AGREED. Get over the biology and get ON WITH it. Men and women...ya all need to get a GRIP! Are we NOT more than the sum total of our genitals and glands???? Sheesh. (all this from a proud FEMALE vet).
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Apr 10, '03
  8. by   Stargazer
    Originally posted by kmchugh
    Other countries have experimented with having women in combat positions, notably Israel. In almost every case, this change has found to be disruptive to military readiness, and has either been drastically altered or abandoned.
    Kevin, do you have a cite to back this up? I just did a quick Google search and couldn't find anything but a few opinion pieces, both for and against (most of the "con" opinions coming from Orthodox Jews who have religious objections to serving with women).

    Interesting that this just came up today. Good Morning America featured an interview with this female fighter pilot, whose plane was shot at and severely damaged while flying a mission over Baghdad. I wish this article showed pics of the plane--it had huge gaping holes punched all the way through the fuselage and dozens of bullet holes riddling the wings and tail. She didn't want to ditch over Baghdad, so she flew the plane--which was on fire at least part of the time--over an hour back to base. She was also flying it manually, which is something so rarely done that these kind of pilots learn to do it just ONCE, in training, for practice.

    24 hours later, she was back up in the air flying her next mission.

    I don't care who you are, that's impressive.

    Another female fighter pilot in Iraq.
  9. by   jnette
    Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes
    AGREED. Get over the biology and get ON WITH it. Men and women...ya all need to get a GRIP! Are we NOT more than the sum total of our genitals and glands???? Sheesh. (all this from a proud FEMALE vet).
    Sheeeeesh, Blueyes, ya did it again !
    I don't know why I even bother to post at all.. I'll just let Deb do my posting FOR me! By the time I get around to reading the threads and posts, decide I want to throw in my $.02 worth, I find the she's already beat me to the mark, and has voiced my opinion ! I'll catch her sleeping one of these days ! :chuckle

    From another proud "no powderpuff vet".
  10. by   Furball
    Originally posted by Gomer
    Guys, you need to get over the idea of protecting the poor weak female. That's caveman mentality. Gals, you need to get over the "I'm a princess, waiting for my prince to save me". Israel has the right idea -- draft everyone
    I agree, if there's a draft...both sexes are called.

    Protecting females I always thought was rather humerous considering the large percentage of female pts in our own ER's who are beaten by husbands/boyfriends. Violence in war is at least expected.
  11. by   mario_ragucci
    You have to remember militaries and going to war are MEN things. Really. It has always been groups of men who initiate the ultra-violence associated with battle. You know what I mean.

    Women are just copy-catting the men in the military because I don't think any right minded women have war on their mind. Women create new life, not destroy it.

    This is seperate from this discussion, and I'm sorry, because war and militaries have all ready taken over and we all have grown up in a world with super-powers and organized militias. We are lead to believe a world can not exist without said mentality of military opposition and violence orientated conflict resolution.

    If women want to be soldiers, should they be allowed? We should be asking if the whole idea of violence and destruction is the right use of anyones time and efforts. If we use the military machines to help one another and live together or improve conditions, all people on earth would benifit. You go girl!
  12. by   gotosleep
    Originally posted by kmchugh
    A lesson we should have learned from our previous administration is that the military does not exist as a vehicle for social change. There are ingrained behaviors in our society, one of which is the protection of women. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, simply that it exists. Other countries have experimented with having women in combat positions, notably Israel. In almost every case, this change has found to be disruptive to military readiness, and has either been drastically altered or abandoned. As a society, I don't think we are ready for this, and using the military as the vehicle for social change is not a good idea, when combat effectiveness is negatively impacted.

    Kevin McHugh
    Well said Kevin, now go to the bye bye saddam thread and argue with me please.
  13. by   Nurse Izzy
    Originally posted by mark_LD_RN
    I personally feel women should be given equall opportunity in the military for any and all positions including combat positions if they meet the same minimum standards as the men. with out lowering the bar at all. women want equal right so they should be treated equally.

    but on the other hand I would be distracted by women in the military as I would feel I had to protect them and keep them safe. since I was brought up kind of old school

    what does everyone else think?
    I am all for women in the military - provided that they do pass all the same rigors as any man is required to do also. There most definitely should not be two separate sets of standards. That doesn't help anyone. That said, if a woman wants to go to combat, she should be allowed. I've never been in a war/combat situation, but have to think that a sixth sense is developed that allows any soldier to watch out for their fellow batallion members, etc - whether male or female. Hopefully too, military training will provide them enough opportunity together to "get over" the gender crap. I have a good friend who is a commissioned officer and is currently stationed in Korea. We haven't heard from her since the conflict started, so we don't know if she's moved to Iraq/Kuwait or not. What I can tell you, though, is that that is exactly where she would want to be. She's female, feminine and feisty. When time comes, she can put on a ball gown and be proper and feminine amonst the best of them, but she's also equally at home in her BDUs fighting with the guys. I can't say for sure, but I would suspect that any guy who is in with her would feel a sense of relief - to have someone that feisty, driven, dedicated, intelligent and fit on their team. I've seen her carry (fireman's carry) a 260lb man the length of a football field - she's 5'4" probably 120lbs (maybe up to 140 since she has so much muscle). If I were a man, I'd feel comfortable going to the front with her!

    On the flip side, there are many women and men who do not need to be on the front lines. In every branch, in every position. That would frighten me more than having to fight alongside a woman - the wonder if the person next to me is a wimp!
  14. by   jnette
    Well said, Nurse Izzy !

    Not the gender, but the PERSON, the CHARACTER... their ideals, their courage, their intuition, their integrity. All these things come into play. This thing of feeling you want to "protect" the woman is a man thing, and they'll just have to work on that issue themselves... it's THEIR problem.

    I think Jessica Lynch more than proved herself in her situation.

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