Those innocent anti-war marchers...

  1. Antiwar protesters trash 9/11 memorial
    American flags burned and slashed
    By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell, Staff Writer


    LA HABRA -- Antiwar protesters burned and ripped up flags, flowers and patriotic signs at a Sept. 11 memorial that residents erected on a fence along Whittier Boulevard days after the terrorist attacks in 2001 and have maintained ever since.

    However, although officers witnessed the vandalism Saturday afternoon, police did not arrest three people seen damaging the display because they were "exercising the same freedom of speech that the people who put up the flags were,' La Habra Police Capt. John Rees said Monday.

    "For this to be vandalism, there had to be an ill-will intent,' he said.

    Rees said in order for police to take any action, the owner of the fence would have to file a complaint.

    Jeff Collison, owner of The RV Center in La Habra, who has allowed residents to add patriotic symbols to the fence on his property, said he just might do that.

    "Their free speech stops at destruction of private property. If they are allowed to come on my property and burn flags, does that mean I can go to City Hall or the police station and light their flags on fire because that is freedom of speech? To me, this is vandalism,' Collison said.

    Some residents Monday hung signs criticizing those who destroyed the display.

    Tracey Chandler, a Whittier mother of four who has maintained the spontaneous memorial since it was created by other area residents soon after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, said she was shocked by the destruction.

    "They trashed 87 flags, ripped 11 memorial tiles made by myself and my children out of the ground and glued the Bob Dylan song to a sign that said, 'America, land of the brave, home of the free,' ' she said.

    The Bob Dylan song she referred to is "With God on Our Side,' an antiwar anthem of the 1960s.

    "It's unbelievable, because there were absolutely no political messages on this fence. It was all about supporting our troops, which could mean bringing them home, and about remembering 9-11.'

    Les Howard, a sociology professor at Whittier College, said the incident might be an indication of some confusion among people trying to stop a possible war against Iraq but uncertain how to express their sentiments. However, he said he does not condone the destruction of symbols important to those who erect them.

    "Some think (the best way to support the troops) is to not question their role. Some think the best way is to pursue all means possible to avoid putting them in danger,' he said. "That still does not excuse any desecration of people's symbolic participation.'

    Chandler said she plans to rebuild the Sept. 11 memorial.

    "We are going to rebuild this memorial, and it will be brighter, bigger and better than ever,' Chandler said.
    ----------------------------------

    says alot right there about them doesn't it.

    Dave
    •  
  2. 15 Comments

  3. by   Mkue
    www.anncoulter.org/guestwriters/mars022003.htm
    ____________________________________________
    Dave, sometimes people just defeat their cause. Not all but some people. Your post is sad but it's also reality.
  4. by   kids
    QUOTED from Marie's link: ...Human shield protester, Grace Trevitt, says that she and her comrades plan to identify potential bombing targets--such as power stations and bridges--and act as human shields to protect them. If war breaks out in the region, they would automatically be foisting a moral dilemma on US and allied military by surrounding targets. These soldiers would be forced to choose between carrying out their duties, as passed down to them via the chain of command, or turning some of their fellow countrymen into involuntary organ donors.

    IMHO they would be voluntary organ donors and I will hope that US troops will face no moral dilemma when it comes to dealing with traitors.
  5. by   fab4fan
    I think it was inappropriate to destroy that memorial; there are better, more mature ways of getting a conflicting point heard.

    Found the lyrics to the Bob Dylan song; just in case anyone wondered. Personally, I thought the message had some good points to consider.

    With God On Our Side

    Words and music-Bob Dylan


    Oh my name it is nothin'
    My age it means less
    The country I come from
    Is called the Midwest
    I's taught and brought up there
    The laws to abide
    And that land that I live in
    Has God on its side.

    Oh the history books tell it
    They tell it so well
    The cavalries charged
    The Indians fell
    The cavalries charged
    The Indians died
    Oh the country was young
    With God on its side.

    Oh the Spanish-American
    War had its day
    And the Civil War too
    Was soon laid away
    And the names of the heroes
    I's made to memorize
    With guns in their hands
    And God on their side.

    Oh the First World War, boys
    It closed out its fate
    The reason for fighting
    I never got straight
    But I learned to accept it
    Accept it with pride
    For you don't count the dead
    When God's on your side.

    When the Second World War
    Came to an end
    We forgave the Germans
    And we were friends
    Though they murdered six million
    In the ovens they fried
    The Germans now too
    Have God on their side.

    I've learned to hate Russians
    All through my whole life
    If another war starts
    It's them we must fight
    To hate them and fear them
    To run and to hide
    And accept it all bravely
    With God on my side.

    But now we got weapons
    Of the chemical dust
    If fire them we're forced to
    Then fire them we must
    One push of the button
    And a shot the world wide
    And you never ask questions
    When God's on your side.

    In a many dark hour
    I've been thinkin' about this
    That Jesus Christ
    Was betrayed by a kiss
    But I can't think for you
    You'll have to decide
    Whether Judas Iscariot
    Had God on his side.

    So now as I'm leavin'
    I'm weary as Hell
    The confusion I'm feelin'
    Ain't no tongue can tell
    The words fill my head
    And fall to the floor
    If God's on our side
    He'll stop the next war.
  6. by   cwazycwissyRN
    :imbar what were they thinking?
  7. by   pickledpepperRN
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Dplear
    [B]Antiwar protesters trash 9/11 memorial
    American flags burned and slashed
    By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell, Staff Writer


    LA HABRA -- Antiwar protesters burned and ripped up flags, flowers and patriotic signs at a Sept. 11 memorial that residents erected on a fence along Whittier Boulevard days after the terrorist attacks in 2001 and have maintained ever since.

    Very Sad. OF COURSE THEY WERE WRONG.

    And just as misguided, but only words:
    Anti-War Protesters: Shades of Stupidity
    By: Rachel Marsden
    February 20 , 2003
    WHILE SECRETARY of State Colin Powell is busy making his compelling case for war in Iraq to the paint on the wall at the United Nations, anti-American "peaceniks" around the world have been busy taking to the streets of America, Europe and even Iraq itself. The "peace movement" has been treating the world to displays of varying degrees of ignorance. One has to wonder if these people would know a real threat if Saddam shot a scud through their living room. But there are ignoramuses, and then there are downright traitors.
    Last week, clapped-out Boomers around the world emerged from their acid-induced haze--or mom's basement, depending on the case--to hit the streets in an attempt to re-create the peace protests of the mythical '60's. This group represents the grassroot peace movement. They choose as their leaders great, inspirational thinkers like actors Sean Penn, Martin Sheen and Janeane Garofalo.
    You decide: Are these ONLY words? Are these the words of traitors or "clapped out boomers? Ignoramuses?Peacniks?
    Or real people uncertain that the country we love should start another war?

    Martin Luther King Jr. Said, "Returning violence for violence multiplies violence."

    I think it comes down to what is self defense?

    Veterans' Letter to the President
    By Veterans For Common Sense
    March 11, 2003
    The following letter was signed by 1,000 war veterans and given to the President on March 10, 2003.
    March 10, 2003
    The Honorable George W. Bush
    President of the United States of America
    1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
    Washington, DC 20500
    Dear Mr. President:
    We, the undersigned veterans who have served our country in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the 1991 Gulf War and other military conflicts, respectfully request an opportunity to meet with you about the threat of war between the United States and Iraq.
    Mr. President, we are patriotic citizens and veterans who respect the office of the President and the ethics and values binding us together as Americans.
    As such, we feel duty-bound to share with you our serious concerns regarding issues of national security, the appropriate use of our military strength, and the health and welfare of our active duty soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. Those of us who are veterans of the 1991 Gulf War can offer particular insight into the ongoing troubles in the Middle East, and the likely consequences of another war in that volatile region.
    A dozen years ago, we helped liberate Kuwait from Iraqi occupation, and in the course of combat operations came face to face with brutality and the consequences of modern warfare. We learned how unpredictable the nature of war can be. And we learned that war-related losses are not simply experienced on the battlefield.
    Following the 1991 Gulf War, we collectively failed to prevent Saddam Hussein's violent repression of a popular uprising and the unprecedented refugee flight that ensued. As a result, tens of thousands of innocent civilians died. In addition to those deaths, the war and immediate post-war conditions resulted in the excess deaths of 46,900 children under the age of five, according to the New England Journal of Medicine (Sept. 24, 1992).
    Over the long term, the 1991 Gulf War has had a lasting, detrimental impact on the health of countless people in the region, and on the health of American men and women who served there. Twelve years after the conflict, over 164,000 American Gulf War veterans are now considered disabled by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. That number increases daily.
    The possibility of large-scale war between the U.S. and Iraq looms before us once again. For this urgent reason we would like to meet with you to discuss steps the United States and its allies can take to protect U.S. soldiers, allied forces, and Iraqi civilians from known and suspected hazards that would result from military operations.
    We understand the risks that come with war and that there are times when such risks are necessary. However, we strongly question the need for a war at this time. Despite Secretary of State Colin Powell's report to the Security Council and the testimony of others in the administration, we are not convinced that coercive containment has failed, or that war has become necessary.
    Our own intelligence agencies have consistently noted both the absence of an imminent threat from Iraq and reliable evidence of cooperation between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Again, we question whether this is the right time and the right war.
    Further, we believe the risks involved in going to war, under the unclear and shifting circumstances that confront us today, are far greater than those faced in 1991. Instead of a desert war to liberate Kuwait, combat would likely involve protracted siege warfare, chaotic street-to-street fighting in Baghdad, and Iraqi civil conflict. If that occurs, we fear our own nation and Iraq would both suffer casualties not witnessed since Vietnam. We fear the resulting carnage and humanitarian consequences would further devastate Iraqi society and inflame an already volatile Middle East, and increase terrorism against U.S. citizens.
    Our concerns about the potential human and material costs of a military conflict in Iraq are well substantiated. In the event of a war, the UN warns that 1.26 million children under the age of five in Iraq will be at risk of death. Within the initial weeks of conflict, the World Health Organization estimates 500,000 Iraqis would need immediate medical attention. Ten million Iraqis would need immediate humanitarian assistance and over two million Iraqis would be made homeless.
    The scale of the crisis would be so large that the international community would be unable to prevent widespread suffering. For these reasons and more, it remains in our nation's best interest to avoid another war. The risk of excessive civilian casualties like those predicted by the UN pose a grave risk to our national security, making the U.S. more of a target of retaliatory attacks by terrorists.
    Mr. President, as our Commander-in-Chief, we recognize the immense responsibility you have to protect our homeland and keep our nation secure. As veterans who honorably served our nation in its wars, we believe that our perspectives, knowledge and expertise can aid you at this crucial time, as you continue to deliberate on whether or not to commit our nation to war.
    We therefore request a meeting at your earliest possible convenience. We look forward to any opportunity to come together with you to discuss the matters we have raised.
    Sincerely,
    Vice Admiral Ralph Weymouth, USN, Retired
    Vice Admiral Jack Shanahan, USN, Retired
    Brigadier General Evelyn P. Foote, USA, Retired
    Colonel David H. Hackworth, USA, Retired
    Colonel Larry Williams, USMC, Retired
    Colonel James E Unterseher, USA, Retired
    Colonel James B. Burkholder, USA, Retired
    Colonel Roger F. Strand, USAF, Retired
    Colonel Virginia A. Metcalf, USA, Retired
    Colonel Mary H. Yeakel, USA, Retired
    Colonel Henrik O. Lunde, USA, Retired
    Colonel Bruce S. Jarstfer, USA, Retired
    Colonel Thomas Patrick Chisholm, USA, Retired
    Colonel James Steven Chandler, USA
    Colonel James J. Kent, USA, Retired
    Colonel Grace E. Squires, USA, Retired
    Colonel Carol Anne O‚Donnell, USA, Retired
    Captain Kris Kristofferson, USA, Retired
    Captain Thomas C. Tindall Jr., USNR, Retired
    Captain Herbert A. Blough, USN, Retired
    Captain M. David Preston, USCG
    Lieutenant Colonel Elizabeth K. McGillicuddy, USMC, Retired
    Read the names of the rest of the veterans who signed the letter at:
    http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/
    .
  8. by   Stargazer
    originally posted by dplear
    says alot right there about them doesn't it.
    it says volumes about that particular group of people. i certainly hope you are not trying to imply that this one incident is a fair representation of the anti-war movement in general. the enormous number of people who have met to demonstrate peacefully all over the world speak to the fallacy of that argument.

    what this group did was stupid, destructive, misguided, counterproductive, illegal, and disrespectful. some people are just bleep . this should not be news to anyone.
    Last edit by Rustyhammer on Mar 12, '03
  9. by   Sleepyeyes
    some people are just disgusting.

    <where's a disgusted smiley when ya need one>
  10. by   pickledpepperRN
    http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co....tentPK=4609925

    US SOLDIERS STORM CAMP
    10:30 - 11 March 2003

    Armed Us troops stormed the peace camp at RAF Fairford and ripped protesters' banners off the fence.

    Dressed in boiler suits and armed with serrated combat knives, the men stripped the 10ft steel fence at Gate 10. By 2pm yesterday they were putting up a barbed wire fence to keep the demonstrators at bay.

    Gloucestershire police intervened after airforce personnel and 12 protesters began to wrestle with the peace banners.

    The campaigners were given 40 minutes to move their camp after local police negotiated between them and airbase staff.

    They have now moved several metres away from Gate 10, on Top Road.

    Protesters worked through the night to rebuild their camp as B52 bombers tested their engines on the runway.

    Sarj, a healthcare worker and a student, said: "The American airforce personnel were very aggressive.

    "One soldier hacked at my banner with a combat knife as I was trying to tug it away from the fence.

    "They told us that if we were in their country then we would be thrown in jail for what we were doing.

    "If the local police hadn't been there the situation could have escalated into something much worse.

    "This is just another case of Americans trying to push people about and have their own way and we're not standing for it.

    "We are here protesting by rights and in a peaceful manner. We've camped here in temperatures below freezing so something like this isn't going to stop us now."

    Protesters have been camping at Fairford since February 17.

    Their numbers swelled in the run up to a peace rally on February 23, and more have been arriving each day.

    The camp moved to gate 10 when B-52 bombers arrived last week.

    Rolls of razor wire were laid inside the perimeter fence to keep them out last Friday.

    Ministry of Defence spokesman, Sqn Ldr John Morris, said the special Herras fencing was an extension of security around gate 10.

    "The fencing has been put up to help people identify where Ministry of Defence property begins and ends," he said.

    "The reason why it has been put up now is that it was a low priority project and this was the last area to be fenced off.

    "As far as I know peace protesters were not treated badly and their banners were taken down as they were on MoD property and it was our entitlement.

    "The fence has now been moved up to the boundary of MoD property separating it from the highway."

    Nuala Young, from Oxford, said: "The security here has been shown up recently with people getting on the runway so this is just too little too late.

    "We need to be here to make sure these bombers don't fly off to Iraq without the backing of the UN.

    "We are the eyes and ears for the people of this country and are letting them know what is going on with these planes."

    Military personnel have also added a heavier and higher security gate to the main entrance. A crane lifted it into place on Friday.

    The step-up in security came after two women breached the perimeter fence and got on to the base's 100,000ft runway.

    A 61-year-old grandmother from Hull was arrested for aggravated trespass after she breached the perimeter fence and allegedly sat beneath a B-52 bomber for two hours last Monday.

    A second female protester was arrested last Tuesday after she climbed on to the fence holding a purple banner reading "no war".

    Evesham protester Kate Holcombe has been charged with criminal damage amounting to £8,000 after the main gate was pulled down during the peace demonstration on February 23.

    Yesterday, a further nine protesters were arrested and charged with aggravated trespass after an alleged break-in at the base.

    The group were accused of cutting through the fencing.

    Gloucestershire protester Dave Cockcroft said: "Last night, we had a few drinks and are in high spirits. We're all hanging in there and refuse to be intimidated."

    He added: "At the moment activity is very quiet on the base. They're moving some of the bombers around but other than that it seems very quiet."

    Peace protesters at RAF Fairford were warned on March 6 they could be taking their lives in their hands if they break into the US airbase.

    Police said trespassers will be putting themselves in danger because of aircraft manoeuvres.

    A total of 14 B-52 bombers are stationed on the base and there have also been sightings of 63-ft U2 spy planes and C-17 Globemaster cargo planes.
  11. by   Mkue
    A 61-year-old grandmother from Hull was arrested for aggravated trespass after she breached the perimeter fence and allegedly sat beneath a B-52 bomber for two hours last Monday.

    __________________________________________

  12. by   pickledpepperRN
    We cannot even hope she will mature.
    Last edit by pickledpepperRN on Mar 12, '03
  13. by   Dplear
    The step-up in security came after two women breached the perimeter fence and got on to the base's 100,000ft runway.

    Damn.....think they might have misquoted the length of that runway....that would be a 20 MILE long runway. more likely a 10,000 foot runway. As for them being on the runway, they were lucky they were not shot and killed. The SP's in the Air Force do not joke around when it comes top guarding those planes and bases. For all those protesters knoew those planes could have been loaded with nukes and the AF guys WILL shot to kill if you try to get near those planes...no questions even asked. Highly stupid of them to try to stop military functions on the base.

    Gloucestershire protester Dave Cockcroft said: "Last night, we had a few drinks and are in high spirits. We're all hanging in there and refuse to be intimidated."
    Drunk british hooligans.....they act like it was a soccer match.

    Dave
  14. by   fab4fan
    Bad behavior knows no political affiliation. All war protesters are not bad; all war protesters are not perfect. All those in favor of war are not bad; all those in favor of war are not perfect.

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