The Medical Aspect of Execution - page 3

What do you all think of all the medical snafus in State sanctioned Capital Punishment? Who are the people in charge of this and why can't they get their act together? Is it that hard to humanely... Read More

  1. by   MrNurse(x2)
    I have always wondered why a PICC wasn't inserted. A common excuse for a botch was the high proportion of IVDA. Inserting a PICC is not seen as cruel and unusual in a medical setting, why is it considered so in a penal situation? For the record, I abhor the death penalty and euthanasia, but until I am King of the World, it doesn't really matter how I feel.
  2. by   NurseSpeedy
    Quote from MrNurse(x2)
    I have always wondered why a PICC wasn't inserted. A common excuse for a botch was the high proportion of IVDA. Inserting a PICC is not seen as cruel and unusual in a medical setting, why is it considered so in a penal situation? For the record, I abhor the death penalty and euthanasia, but until I am King of the World, it doesn't really matter how I feel.
    Working in a population that also has high IVDA, I have seen some where their veins are so bad that a PICC cannot be inserted, even with ultrasound. Finding someone qualifued and willing to insert it is another issue. I'm leaning more toward access being yet another obstacle be thrown out there as a way to move away from capital punishment but not make it look like a political agenda where this topic usually ends up in the end. I cannot really say where I stand on the issue, just we should be damn sure the person is guilty if we are going to execute someone. As stated earlier, money buys lawyers and the better the defense (or numerous other factors that make our justice system unequal) the more likely to get the charges dropped.
  3. by   ~Mi Vida Loca~RN
    Quote from twss2323
    If IV access is such a huge issue, which I understand given most of these individuals likely have a past history of drug use; I wonder if there's a way to do something IM or subQ. Yeah, it doesn't work as fast, but give the sedative, let it start working, then give the next drug.

    I've always thought a giant dose of insulin might not be too bad of a way to go. There's gotta be other routes of administration of drugs.

    The nitrogen method is interesting, and seems like it would totally eliminate the IV issue. I wonder why it isn't more widely used.

    I remember researching this years ago and reading that the mortality rate in a non diabetic attempting suicide by insulin overdose is not very high. That it takes a heck of a lot more insulin than one would expect. Like 700-1000 units. Really surprised me.

    I often wondered why not have them go out via carbon monoxide. From what I have read is the person gets sleepy and passes out and that it's painless. You can even hook it up via nasal cannula or mask to go quickly. I am wondering if it has to do with containment and risk to others or something.


    So just a little FYI regarding execution. The term "well hung" apparently originally came from public executions. When a person is hung if it's done efficiently it can cause priapism. So they would say the convict was "well hung" or "hung well"

    9 hrs of a Trauma conference and that's what I took from it. lol
  4. by   Boomer MS, RN
    Quote from ~Mi Vida Loca~RN
    I remember researching this years ago and reading that the mortality rate in a non diabetic attempting suicide by insulin overdose is not very high. That it takes a heck of a lot more insulin than one would expect. Like 700-1000 units. Really surprised me.

    I often wondered why not have them go out via carbon monoxide. From what I have read is the person gets sleepy and passes out and that it's painless. You can even hook it up via nasal cannula or mask to go quickly. I am wondering if it has to do with containment and risk to others or something.


    So just a little FYI regarding execution. The term "well hung" apparently originally came from public executions. When a person is hung if it's done efficiently it can cause priapism. So they would say the convict was "well hung" or "hung well"

    9 hrs of a Trauma conference and that's what I took from it. lol
    Very interesting.
  5. by   Avid reader
    Quote from Guy in Babyland
    Why do we need to execute people so they die comfortably and quietly? Maybe I am a horrible person, but did the victims that these people killed die comfortably and quietly? Why are we treating these prisoners with such dignity and respect even though they gave their victims no dignity or respect?

    My proposal is that they are executed in the manner that their victims died.
    Here's a thought, "What is in your head that allows you to think it is justifiable to kill another human being is probably alongside the same thought patterns that runs through those prisoners when they killed. " You could rationalize or intellectualize whichever way you want but I have little doubts that it is similar.

    Which countries still have the death penalty – and who executes the most prisoners? | The Independent

    Those are the countries currently executing people. Do you feel similar to them? Think they have the same experiences as an industrialized country's inhabitants do? So why do you share a similar perspective? In demographics terms, extremely few educated people subscribe to the death penalty and no Europeans. Only third world countries and mentalities can get their heads around killing another human being. They possess the cruelty but mostly the lesser value of life, not because they are inferior but because of their harsh life's experiences of struggle and attrition.

    How does their perspective resonate with your own to callously devalue another human life? What does it say about your perception when you come from worlds apart and supposed education, that you cannot differentiate between their thinking and yours? Most of all, the criminals who perpetrate these heinous crimes surely must be impaired in their thinking. It's impossible to not be compromised to commit these crimes. I think effective rehabilitation would be a better choice and don't respond with the stupidity of saying our prisons actually try to rehabilitate. There are no circumstances where you can justify killing another person unless you are a savage!
  6. by   Anonymous865
    Propofal is not used, because it is manufactured outside of the US. The countries where it is manufactured have threatened to ban export to the US for all uses if we use it for execution.

    Many states did use propofal as part of their drug cocktail. They had to stop using it, because they couldn't get it. They had to come up with a different cocktail. Their attempts to come up with another protocol is one of the reasons there have been botched executions recently.

    Regarding using using gas to execute prisoners, many states used to use a gas chamber and it is still legal in several states. States moved away from the gas chamber to lethal injection, because it was thought lethal injection was more humane.
  7. by   ~♪♫ in my ♥~
    Quote from RiskManager
    I have done some consulting in correctional healthcare, and I found out that many prisoners have very difficult venous access due to years of IV drug use, including while in prison. It is hard to find someone to do a cut-down while the prisoner is on the execution gurney.
    Ultrasound guided IV... or intraosseous... or even arterial for that matter.
  8. by   ~♪♫ in my ♥~
    And frankly, we don't need any drugs... just tap into a large artery and bleed 'em dry...
  9. by   Emergent
    Quote from KindaBack
    And frankly, we don't need any drugs... just tap into a large artery and bleed 'em dry...
    I have slaughtered chickens before. The most peaceful method is trussing them up by the feet and cutting their throats. They quickly pass out and die.
  10. by   ~Mi Vida Loca~RN
    I read something quick today and a few things that made me read again: Williams "Morbid obesity makes it likely that either the IV line cannot be placed or that it will be placed in error, thus causing substantial damage (like a collapsed lung)," his attorneys wrote in an earlier court filing asking the judge to block the execution.



    Wait WHAT??? The IV placement is going to be difficult resulting in a collapsed lung?????


    Anyway it said for the sedative they were getting a "megadose of midazolam" I guess I never realized they used Versed for lethal injections but upon reading this apparently they do often.

    It looked like in Ohio they used Versed and Dilaudid in 2014 and that didn't end up going well. Which I imagine it wouldn't. It looks like it took an awful long time for DOD to occur with a lot of struggling. I would imagine so with this duo. It's what I was worried about earlier. :| :|
  11. by   KelRN215
    Quote from MrNurse(x2)
    I have always wondered why a PICC wasn't inserted. A common excuse for a botch was the high proportion of IVDA. Inserting a PICC is not seen as cruel and unusual in a medical setting, why is it considered so in a penal situation? For the record, I abhor the death penalty and euthanasia, but until I am King of the World, it doesn't really matter how I feel.
    Who would insert such a line to be used for the purposes of execution? The AMA and the ANA both have policies against physicians and nurses participating in executions. I'd call placing the line that will be used to administer lethal doses of medications to the condemned prisoner "participation."

    NEW VOICES: American Medical Association, EMT Association Say Participation in Executions Violates Medical Ethics | Death Penalty Information Center

    ANA Releases New Position Statement Opposing Capital Punishment (2/21/17)

    Highly recommend the books Dead Man Walking and The Death of Innocents by Sister Helen Prejean if anyone is interested in the topic.
  12. by   hppygr8ful
    I haven't read through all the comments but I'm a big proponent for bringing back "Old Sparky". Far too much effort is wasted on being humane in this situation. I believe these felons should feel every bit of terror, fear and uncertainty that was felt by their victims in the moments leading up to their deaths. And let's do away with a 20+years appeals process which is a total waste of tax dollars.

    Just Saying
  13. by   Avid reader
    I'll say this much. Whoever or whomever is your other half or spouse etc, they had better walk on eggshells around you lot. I think I will be looking at my fellow nurses differently from now on especially those of a certain geographical location. I thought we should be afraid of the criminals but thanks for the wake up call. It's given me a much better understanding of why things happen to certain types of people. You just never know your colleagues could actually harbour such proclivities.

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