Sheehan: 'I Have to Pay My Bills, Too' - page 9

"9/28/2005 Anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan recently signed on with a speakers' bureau, and her appearance on the lecture circuit drew mixed reaction Tuesday night, especially from her younger... Read More

  1. by   pickledpepperRN
    I can't know what she feels or thinks. Am I correct in my impression that all elected from any party disappoint her? (Like my Grandma said, you expct a snake to bite, expect a politician to be political.)

    At the same time she seems glad they agreed to meet with her.

    I kept posting the link because of my tendency to type too much. Thanks for reading it.
    It is really something what gets people discussing an issue isn't it?
  2. by   Spidey's mom
    I read it too Spacenurse and I'm angry and sad - I'll say it again - Cindy is meanspirited and ugly in her characterizations of people who think the war in Iraq was the right thing to do. If we don't agree with her, we are warmongering and cowardly, we make her skin crawl, we make her sick, we are a lying band of imperialist greed-mongers, we make her feel like taking a shower after talking with us, we are a sycophantic band of criminal liars, . . . sheesh, I feel like she dumped a huge garbage can on top of me.

    "Wrong to invade and wrong to stay. Bring our troops home. Simple" - How can she say it is simple?? How simplistic is that? Leaving now would be a terrible thing to do to Iraq. She complains about us leaving after the first Gulf War and then advocates doing it now -

    Timothy is right - there is room for debate here - but Cindy is so far removed from reality that it makes it difficult to debate.

    steph
  3. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from spacenurse
    I can't know what she feels or thinks. Am I correct in my impression that all elected from any party disappoint her? (Like my Grandma said, you expct a snake to bite, expect a politician to be political.) [font=Arial Black]Spacenurse - Cindy was only disappointed in those politicians who disagreed with her. The war-mongering lying criminals, etc.

    At the same time she seems glad they agreed to meet with her.

    I kept posting the link because of my tendency to type too much. Thanks for reading it.
    It is really something what gets people discussing an issue isn't it?
    steph
  4. by   pickledpepperRN
    All quotes Cindy Sheehan
    http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/100405Y.shtml

    ..."Although my meeting with Senator Clinton (D-NY) went well, I don't believe she will do anything to alleviate the suffering of the Americans in Iraq or the Iraqi people."...

    ..."In my meeting with Howard Dean, he told me that the Iraq issue was "hard," and the new Democratic "Contract with America" is going to have 10 points, and the first one is going to be "Universal Health Care." I told Mr. Dean that if the Dems didn't come out strongly against the war and against George's disastrous policies, we were going to become irrelevant as a party (which is already happening) and the "hard" issue should be the one that is worked on the hardest!"...
    I did miss the slightly positive brief mention of a few unnamed she is not so disappointed in
    ...."The "Anti-War" Dems perplex me the most, however. Except for the good guys, like the members of the Out of Iraq Caucus and a few Senators, the Democratic party line is that we must allow Iraq a window of two months' time, and after the referendum on the constitution this month and the parliamentary elections in December"...
    Seems to me she is not very positive. I don't know what she was like before her son was killed.
  5. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Grief, as everyone of you know, is a process: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

    You know, I don't know how the woman is grieving. But I do know that its unhealthy to stay stuck in anger.

    Move-on and the groups that like her message don't care about her welfare - they want her anger and would dump her to the curb if she actually tried to deal through her anger and moved to a healthier stage of grieving (not that anger isn't healthy, not being able to move past it, is.)

    Because she is angry, she has lost focus. There is a legitimate ethical debate over Iraq. Cindy isn't part of that debate. Cindy's sole intellectual contribution to the debate is name-calling. I will submit that her presence has charged the debate - but not anything she says, because all she seems to say is things solely designed to alienate people that disagree with her.

    I just want to point out that the argument that she is a grieving woman entitled to react in anyway that grief leads BECAUSE OF THE GRIEF ITSELF is misleading. In fact, as her presence on the national scene has shone, expressing her grief publicly hasn't helped her deal with it; she has become, if nothing else, more shrill and more angry.

    Many of you are upset about people referring to a 'grieving act'. I have no doubt that Cindy is an emotional mess. But those that revel in using that emotional minefield do so because, in their opinion, it allows anything to be said without remorse. If I say Cindy is out of line, you say 'Oh, you don't know, you can't know how she feels.' If I say that's exactly why she is being pushed as a mouthpiece, you say 'It's mean to say that her grief is being played upon.'

    THIS IS EXACTLY WHY CINDY IS THEIR MOUTHPIECE.

    And it's not cynical for me to point that out; it's reality. When I say that this is a 'grieving act', I don't mean that Cindy is pretending. I don't know how she feels. But I can see enough to see that her grief has caused her to become 'unhitched'. And that's not healthy. When I say that this is a grieving act, I'm referring to the actions of the national groups that are using her grief - not Cindy herself.

    Is it wrong of me to suggest that somebody that cared more about her interests would be trying to address that grief instead of exploit it?

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  6. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Grief, as everyone of you know, is a process: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

    You know, I don't know how the woman is grieving. But I do know that its unhealthy to stay stuck in anger.

    Move-on and the groups that like her message don't care about her welfare - they want her anger and would dump her to the curb if she actually tried to deal through her anger and moved to a healthier stage of grieving (not that anger isn't healthy, not being able to move past it, is.)

    Because she is angry, she has lost focus. There is a legitimate ethical debate over Iraq. Cindy isn't part of that debate. Cindy's sole intellectual contribution to the debate is name-calling. I will submit that her presence has charged the debate - but not anything she says, because all she seems to say is things solely designed to alienate people that disagree with her.

    I just want to point out that the argument that she is a grieving woman entitled to react in anyway that grief leads BECAUSE OF THE GRIEF ITSELF is misleading. In fact, as her presence on the national scene has shone, expressing her grief publicly hasn't helped her deal with it; she has become, if nothing else, more shrill and more angry.

    Many of you are upset about people referring to a 'grieving act'. I have no doubt that Cindy is an emotional mess. But those that revel in using that emotional minefield do so because, in their opinion, it allows anything to be said without remorse. If I say Cindy is out of line, you say 'Oh, you don't know, you can't know how she feels.' If I say that's exactly why she is being pushed as a mouthpiece, you say 'It's mean to say that her grief is being played upon.'

    THIS IS EXACTLY WHY CINDY IS THEIR MOUTHPIECE.

    And it's not cynical for me to point that out; it's reality. When I say that this is a 'grieving act', I don't mean that Cindy is pretending. I don't know how she feels. But I can see enough to see that her grief has caused her to become 'unhitched'. And that's not healthy. When I say that this is a grieving act, I'm referring to the actions of the national groups that are using her grief - not Cindy herself.

    Is it wrong of me to suggest that somebody that cared more about her interests would be trying to address that grief instead of exploit it?

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Sorry, but you did state explicitly that the far left "all" feel a certain way in a prior post. If necessary, I will find that post and quote it; hopefully, we can agree that perhaps the way certain people (like me) got the impression you were presuming to speak for thoughts of people other than yourself is because you came right out and said so.
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from mercyteapot
    Sorry, but you did state explicitly that the far left "all" feel a certain way in a prior post. If necessary, I will find that post and quote it; hopefully, we can agree that perhaps the way certain people (like me) got the impression you were presuming to speak for thoughts of people other than yourself is because you came right out and said so.
    I didn't use the word 'all' - as was pointed out, I made a generalization - that the far left believe that America is instrinsically evil. I will submit that that doesn't apply to all members of the far left - but to a good number of them.

    You need look no further than all the hollywood 'I'll leave this country' garbage. I always take that as an additional incentive to vote against thier wishes.

    I can point to many of Cindy's comments that would sufficiently allow me to make the above characterization about her - not because i'm presuming to speak her thoughts - but because I'd be repeating them. Let's start with "America is not worth dying for."

    I ever so not humbly disagree.

    But let me point out that it wasn't my intent to make that generalization about you, specifically. You're right, except for what you post here, I don't know your thoughts.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  8. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Let's start with "America is not worth dying for."

    I ever so not humbly disagree.
    But let me throw in Patton's view on the subject, which I agree with: "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other b%$&#&* die for his."

    And on a more humble point, one of my favorite poems:

    Wilfred Owen - Dulce Et Decorum Est

    Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
    Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
    Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
    And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
    Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
    But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
    Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
    Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

    Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!---An ecstasy of fumbling,
    Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
    But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
    And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
    Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
    As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

    In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
    He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

    If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
    Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
    And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
    His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
    If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
    Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
    Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
    Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,---
    My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
    To children ardent for some desperate glory,
    The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
    Pro patria mori.

    "Dulce et decorum est, Pro patria mori": It is sweet and honorable to die for one's country.

    (Wilfred Owen, at age 25, died in combat during WWI roughly a week before Armistice Day.)

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Oct 6, '05
  9. by   Mkue
    "Dulce et decorum est, Pro patria mori": It is sweet and honorable to die for one's country.
    Very nice poem by Wilfred Owen, a 25 y/o brave young man.
  10. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from mercyteapot
    Sorry, but you did state explicitly that the far left "all" feel a certain way in a prior post. If necessary, I will find that post and quote it; hopefully, we can agree that perhaps the way certain people (like me) got the impression you were presuming to speak for thoughts of people other than yourself is because you came right out and said so.
    As well that someone else on this board said that "the right" not "some of "the right" felt a certain way as well:

    From post #16 on this thread:
    The right accuses her of 'using' her son's death. Of overplaying the rieving mom. Of demeaning her son's memory. They imply she is a tool of the far left.
    The generalizations needs to stop, period. It implies that people are sheep who cannot think for themselves, and that crap gets old.
  11. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    But let me throw in Patton's view on the subject, which I agree with: "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other b%$&#&* die for his."

    And on a more humble point, one of my favorite poems:

    Wilfred Owen - Dulce Et Decorum Est

    Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
    Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
    Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
    And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
    Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
    But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
    Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
    Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

    Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!---An ecstasy of fumbling,
    Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
    But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
    And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . . .
    Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
    As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

    In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
    He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

    If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
    Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
    And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
    His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
    If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
    Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
    Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
    Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,---
    My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
    To children ardent for some desperate glory,
    The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
    Pro patria mori.

    "Dulce et decorum est, Pro patria mori": It is sweet and honorable to die for one's country.

    (Wilfred Owen, at age 25, died in combat during WWI roughly a week before Armistice Day.)

    ~faith,
    Timothy.

    There is nothing, as a parent, then having your child die before you. It is not sweet nor honorable, just full of heartache.

    Grannynurse
  12. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from bluesky
    "Of course the people don't want war, that's understood. But after
    all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and
    it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a
    democracy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist
    dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to
    the bidding of the leaders, that's easy. All you have to do is tell
    them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
    patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in
    any country."

    Hermann Goering 1946
    I heard a great counter-quote to this today on Foxnews.

    From Former Asst. Sec of Def Richard Perle

    "Democracies are notoriously prone to withdrawing from conflict."

    In fact, Goering and his ilk COUNTED on that in the run up to WWII.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Oct 6, '05
  13. by   Spidey's mom
    Grannynurse - you are right that losing a child is full of heartache but you cannot speak for every parent. A local man lost his son in Iraq a few weeks ago and there was an interview with him in our newspaper, where he spoke proudly of his son's decision to re-enlist. He also said his son did the right thing, that it was honorable and brave and that his son is his hero.

    Some parents do think it honorable.

    steph

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