Roe vs Wade?

  1. Texas lawmakers advanced a bill that would make it legal for doctors to lie to women about the health of their pregnancy in order to prevent them from getting abortions. So if your fetus was sick, or had a disability or chromosomal abnormality, your doctor could literally not tell you – and that would be legal.
    How does my fellow RN's feel about this? Do you think that it'll stop there? As Texas goes, so to the lower 48.
    Last edit by Avid reader on Mar 5 : Reason: Additional information.
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  2. 33 Comments

  3. by   Ruby Vee
    We have a thread on here about "Birth Rape" -- this sounds like a sort of rape, also. A bunch of old white men deciding what is best for women they've never met in situations they cannot imagine because, you know, a woman cannot be trusted to know what is best for herself and her family.
  4. by   Sour Lemon
    Quote from Avid reader
    Texas lawmakers advanced a bill that would make it legal for doctors to lie to women about the health of their pregnancy in order to prevent them from getting abortions. So if your fetus was sick, or had a disability or chromosomal abnormality, your doctor could literally not tell you – and that would be legal.
    How does my fellow RN's feel about this? Do you think that it'll stop there? As Texas goes, so to the lower 48.
    Have you read the bill, yourself, and come to this conclusion ...or is this someone else's interpretation?
  5. by   Emergent
    A lot of non-white people oppose abortion too. I think that's such a stereotype to blame "a bunch of old,white men" for things.
  6. by   Avid reader
    Have you read the bill, yourself, and come to this conclusion ...or is this someone else's interpretation?
    Have you? Is it not self explanatory or do you think it could be alternative facts? What's your interpretation?
    Last edit by Avid reader on Mar 5 : Reason: Additional information.
  7. by   Sour Lemon
    Quote from Avid reader
    Have you? Is it not self explanatory or do you think it could be alternative facts? What's your interpretation?
    I know nothing about it other than what you've said here ...and that information doesn't name the bill we're discussing or contain any actual wording from the bill. I just wonder where people get their information sometimes- and how accurate that information is.
  8. by   Anonymous865
    From what I understand it doesn't make it legal for physicians to lie to patients. It says that if a physician discovers fetal anomalies and they don't tell the patient, they can't be sued for failing to inform the parents.

    Here's the proposed bill.

    Bill Text: TX SB25 | 217-218 | 85th Legislature | Introduced | LegiScan

    and a news article about it

    Texas Bill Would Allow OBs To Withhold Information From Pregnant Women | The Huffington Post

    It's pretty unethical.
  9. by   Avid reader
    A lot of non-white people oppose abortion too. I think that's such a stereotype to blame "a bunch of old,white men" for things

    Think you may possibly be missing the point of the post, Emergent. This is about control. I do not want anyone to limit my choices especially if I possess the acumen to evaluate the situation. Where does it stop?
  10. by   Sour Lemon
    Quote from Anonymous865
    From what I understand it doesn't make it legal for physicians to lie to patients. It says that if a physician discovers fetal anomalies and they don't tell the patient, they can't be sued for failing to inform the parents.

    Here's the proposed bill.

    Bill Text: TX SB25 | 217-218 | 85th Legislature | Introduced | LegiScan

    and a news article about it

    Texas Bill Would Allow OBs To Withhold Information From Pregnant Women | The Huffington Post

    It's pretty unethical.
    It does sound a little tricky ...but is it saying it's OK to lie to your patients, or just that patients can't sue for "wrongful birth" if a situation is not fully disclosed because it is not fully discovered or the severity of the condition is not fully understood? Would it even be possible to determine that a doctor intentionally omitted information in some cases?
    I just had a fetal anatomy ultrasound, for example. If my doctor didn't notice or say anything about my baby's hypothetical defective heart and my baby was born sick, this bill would prevent me from saying, "I'm suing you for wrongful birth because I would have had an abortion if you'd caught and disclosed this condition." What if the baby simply wasn't in the best position for an accurate assessment to be made? My doctor did actually comment that they were unable to get one of the views due to position.
  11. by   heron
    Quote from Emergent
    A lot of non-white people oppose abortion too. I think that's such a stereotype to blame "a bunch of old,white men" for things.
    Oh stop it ... in what alternate reality do non-white men get to dictate or control in any way this kind of legislation?

    As to the OP, if true then ya gotta love Texas' version of small gubmint. Not the first time such control over what gets said between patient and provider has been proposed.
  12. by   Avid reader
    Bills are proposed after being steered by some lobbyists or the other, eg political contributors or invested party like the insurance industry or possibly a religious faction. These are all groups that employs lobbyists as well as the medical fraternity of Drs.

    Who benefits from this bill but the people mentioned above. Pressure is applied and corrupted politicians capitulate or lose funding or the promissory directorships or lobbyist appointments waiting for them. That's generally the way the system works.

    Who benefits from this bill and why such a proposal? Because women in specific states are deemed innocuous and impotent, because politians aren't afraid of their voting blocs or feel empowered enough to not even care what they think. That to me is even worse because of the possible consequences.
  13. by   heron
    Quote from Sour Lemon
    It does sound a little tricky ...but is it saying it's OK to lie to your patients, or just that patients can't sue for "wrongful birth" if a situation is not fully disclosed because it is not fully discovered or the severity of the condition is not fully understood? Would it even be possible to determine that a doctor intentionally omitted information in some cases?
    I just had a fetal anatomy ultrasound, for example. If my doctor didn't notice or say anything about my baby's hypothetical defective heart and my baby was born sick, this bill would prevent me from saying, "I'm suing you for wrongful birth because I would have had an abortion if you'd caught and disclosed this condition." What if the baby simply wasn't in the best position for an accurate assessment to be made? My doctor did actually comment that they were unable to get one of the views due to position.
    It's very tricky ... it all depends on whether withholding relevant information is the same thing as lying. In my view, it is. The whole point of a fetal ultrasound is to determine if problematic anomalies exist. In that context, to refuse to disclose abnormal findings implies the absence of such findings. Of course there are ambiguous studies that fail to show problems, but that's not what we're talking about.

    Besides, if I had undergone such a procedure, I know I would be full of questions - the first one being "Is it normal?" How a provider who wants to hide an abnormality in order to prevent a possible abortion would answer such questions without lying is beyond me. So I agree that the bill essentially makes lying to the patient legal and definitely unethical.
  14. by   OrganizedChaos
    Glad I'm done having kids!

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