Reparations for slavery - continued

  1. Moe, I didn't mean spite when I said the idea of reparations have enough practical problems to make them ridiculous, and I hope I didn't come off that way. I just meant that until someone (ANYONE) can figure out the practicalities of something it's a little ridiculous to advocate it must happen.

    I am from BC, where native treaty right have been in the courts for YEARS!!!! There is no doubt in my mind that there is racism towards them as a group, and that many of them continue to suffer from it (people seem to forget that we still were placing native children in residential schools where they were often abused right up until the 70s!). But the issue has served very little good. The government even got people to vote on what principles should guide their negotiations with the natives (like private property should not be taken and given to them, when they'd never asked for it to happen anyways). People complain that natives get a lot of freebies (status natives don't pay taxes on the reserve, get free healthcare and dental care, free college tuition, preference in certain jobs, etc) and once the treaties are negotiated that should stop. Natives in Canada have some of the worst stats when it comes to living conditions, unemployment and health. Does this sound familiar to you at all?

    The treaty process here will eventually have to be resolved as a matter of law, unlike reparations which are still at a theoretical level. But after the lawyer bills are paid, what will really be gained? I hope equality, but even I'm not that naive. I wonder if a money payout or land grant will result in much improvement in the quality of life for the majority of the people there. I doubt it, and it has stirred up SO much bitterness I don't want to see that happen in the US too. If the US can learn anything from Canada, it may be that stirring the pot sometimes isn't worth it.
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  2. 76 Comments

  3. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    i wasn't referring to your previous post at all. they weren't disrespectful at all. your previous post gave me an understanding as to why you think slavery reparations wouldn't work..& i definitely can live with that.

    i was referring to the deliberate snips without valid reasons is all. i'm sorry if you think i meant you because i don't. as i've said...there were some valid reasons for not going along with slavery reparation & i forgot about your valid point when i included russell's & kevin's above. i'm sure that i've forgot some others as well when i was trying to get the point across that sarcasm that results in disrespect won't foster listening, understanding, & growth.

    again...i apologize!

    cheers!
    moe
  4. by   Mkue
    Originally posted by Tilleycs
    Aren't we humans just a mess?
    Excellent and honest, I agree

  5. by   gwenith
    Originally posted by fergus51
    Moe, I didn't mean spite when I said the idea of reparations have enough practical problems to make them ridiculous, and I hope I didn't come off that way. I just meant that until someone (ANYONE) can figure out the practicalities of something it's a little ridiculous to advocate it must happen.

    I am from BC, where native treaty right have been in the courts for YEARS!!!! There is no doubt in my mind that there is racism towards them as a group, and that many of them continue to suffer from it (people seem to forget that we still were placing native children in residential schools where they were often abused right up until the 70s!). But the issue has served very little good. The government even got people to vote on what principles should guide their negotiations with the natives (like private property should not be taken and given to them, when they'd never asked for it to happen anyways). People complain that natives get a lot of freebies (status natives don't pay taxes on the reserve, get free healthcare and dental care, free college tuition, preference in certain jobs, etc) and once the treaties are negotiated that should stop. Natives in Canada have some of the worst stats when it comes to living conditions, unemployment and health. Does this sound familiar to you at all?

    The treaty process here will eventually have to be resolved as a matter of law, unlike reparations which are still at a theoretical level. But after the lawyer bills are paid, what will really be gained? I hope equality, but even I'm not that naive. I wonder if a money payout or land grant will result in much improvement in the quality of life for the majority of the people there. I doubt it, and it has stirred up SO much bitterness I don't want to see that happen in the US too. If the US can learn anything from Canada, it may be that stirring the pot sometimes isn't worth it.
    Ditto for Australia - we have much in common.
  6. by   gwenith
    At 625+ posts this thread is getting TOO BIG - simply catching up with the whole thing is becoming a chore so I will "split" the thread and lock the old half.

    This will mean that you will no longer be able to post on the "old" half of the thread but it will be avialable if anyone is interested in reading it. As it is "locked" It will slowly slide off of the "today's active threads" section and into the archives.

    There were so many good and passionate posts on this thread that some may want to read it again - to let you do that easily I will insert a "code word" here in the old thread and repeat it at the beginning of the new thread so that anyone wishing to read the old thread will just have to enter the code word into the search engine to find it.

    The code word is Talgai
  7. by   Hardknox
    Where have I been? Gwenith--are you now a moderator? Must have missed the announcement.....
  8. by   gwenith
    Originally posted by Hardknox
    Where have I been? Gwenith--are you now a moderator? Must have missed the announcement.....
    I 've been around - Yep! Put on the hard hat and took on moderation of the Australian forum. Fortunately/unfortunately until I can recruit lots more Aussies it will not be a heavy workload

    I split the thread where I did because I thought Fergus's post on the problems encountered in Canada was very pertinent to the argument - perhaps it is because it mirrors the problems here in Australia.

    Like our Canadian colleagues we have found that just throwing money at the very real problems of a shattered society and broken people does not work. Most of the money ends in lawyers pockets and the pockets of the beurocrats but there has to be an answer and one that can be applied across the world.

    Perhaps one answer is to "walk a mile in another man's moccasins" as Jane Elliot says. For those who want to learn what it is to be discriminated against I suggest you look at Janes workshops and videos of "Blue Eyes Brown Eyes". They are a revelation.
    Last edit by gwenith on Jul 8, '03
  9. by   Mkue
    Like our Canadian colleagues we have found that just throwing money at the very real problems of a shattered society and broken people does not work. Most of the money ends in lawyers pockets and the pockets of the beurocrats but there has to be an answer and one that can be applied across the world.
    that is interesting Gwenith. We can learn from other countries as well. Thank you for that insight.
  10. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I just want to thank the members here participating in this thread for their kind words here and in PM. I am glad I have chosen to abstain. It was getting way too personal and I was way too defensive. I wish you all well and again, thanks for the kindnesses shown me here. I have restored faith that we can indeed get along, if we really try.
  11. by   maureeno
    "My nation's journey toward justice has not been easy and it is not over. The racial bigotry fed by slavery did not end with slavery or with segregation, and many of the issues that still trouble America have roots in the bitter experience of other times. " 7/08/03
  12. by   Tilleycs
    And the nominees for "most-viewed topic" and "topic with the most heated exchanges in it" are...
  13. by   fergus51
    Don't worry a bit Moe. I would encourage anyone to look at Native Rights in Canada if they are interested in seeing how one type of reparations has affected a society. How the issue is handled varies from province to province, but the whole country should be embarrassed by how one group is largely missing out on the Canadian dream. There is also an amazing amount of corruption coming out of some bands (where government money meant to benefit the whole band winds up in the hands of one influential family). Overall, it has been a disaster.
  14. by   gwenith
    Fergus Ditto and double ditto for Australia. Like you our history of abuse and even "enslavement" of our native aboriginal people is very recent and only dates to the 1970's. If anyone outside of Australia is interested in learning this history google ATSIC that is the Aborignal and Torres Straight Islander Commission.

    I think before you set up reparations you should take a long hard look at what is happening and not happening in other countries - learn by our mistakes and maybe we can find a way to actually find solutions.

    Before resolution you must have solution.

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