Pledge of Allegiance Unconstitutional??

  1. http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/06/26/pl....ap/index.html
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  2. 278 Comments

  3. by   eltrip
    I just saw this pop up on my e-mail. Unconstitutional? It was only a matter of time. How about in a historical context, though? It's a part of American culture, for pity's sake!

    Speaking of constitutional issues, how d'ya like knowing that the feds can use a court that meets in secret to get an order to check you library records? GRRRRR!!!
  4. by   OBNURSEHEATHER
    Hmmmmm.

    My thoughts on this are mixed. I consider myself non-denominational. I do not subscribe to any existing organized religion. I do not enjoy another person's religion being shoved down my throat.

    But The Pledge? C'mon. I said it everyday of my life until I graduated high school, and I never had a problem with it. Never really even noticed the use of the word "God" until so many people started getting weird about it.

    Sometimes I think people just need something to b**ch about, a platform to stand on, an idea that makes them stand out.

    It's a shame that in the process of "protecting" his daughter's religious rights, he's got to butcher something that American's hold dear.

    Heather
  5. by   indeed
    I don't think anyone enjoys another person's religion being shoved down their throat. And I don't think anyone should have to accept that. It's very easy for people to roll their eyes and claim that an atheist is b*tchy because something that is widely accepted in society is unacceptable to them. That said, it is difficult to change that which the majority want unchanged, and I am not entirely sure it is the best way to go about things initially. Personally, I would be glad to see the pledge without that particular phrase, if only because that phrase implies that being an American is somehow conditional. Yes, historically, America has deep religious roots but the initial point was to have the ability to choose and to not be told the name (or lack thereof) of your god by the state.

    Indeed.

    PS - About butchering something that "Americans hold dear"...he is just as much an American as you are and obviously does not hold that particular line dear. The issue was never one of pledging allegance to his country, it was of the conditions put forth.
    Last edit by indeed on Jun 26, '02
  6. by   amblessing
    An unfortunate sign of the times. For my son's music recital at Christmas they had to take the word "Christmas" out of the program and replace it with "holiday" because one parent complained And I live in the so-called Bible belt!
  7. by   NurseDennie
    The pledge of allegiance doesn't shove anybody's religion down anybody else's throat. The fact is that this country WAS founded on a strong judeo-christian basis. The pledge simply *acknowledges* this historial fact. You are pledging allegiance to the flag and to the republic for which it stands, NOT for the God under which it was formed.

    The base is obviously seriously undermined at this point.

    Indeed said "it is difficult to change that which the majority want unchanged." My reaction is that in a Representative Democracy, what the Majority do not want changed, probably should not BE changed.

    Love

    Dennie
  8. by   indeed
    Indeed also said that I don't think it should be the way to go about the whole thing initially (trying to change it). I agree, democracy rocks and if the majority wants it, I am SOL. BUT!! The point I am making is that the majority is not always being entirely "fair" to the minority. Just because a majority exists does not imply that they are educated about the minority. The majority of Americans at many points throughout our history thought that it was perfectly alright to deny other Americans the rights they themselves took for granted. And as much as this country belongs to the majority, it also belongs to the minority and that cannot be completely ignored merely because of the EXISTANCE of a majority.

    Indeed.
  9. by   Q.
    Originally posted by NurseDennie
    Indeed said "it is difficult to change that which the majority want unchanged." My reaction is that in a Representative Democracy, what the Majority do not want changed, probably should not BE changed.

    Love

    Dennie
    I couldn't agree more.
    I don't even want to get started on this topic. My solution is simple. If you don't like it here, if you don't like what this country stands for, then LEAVE. If I lived in Ireland and didn't like it, I would LEAVE. My ancestors lived in Sicily and were poor; there were many, many problems which they could not change so what did they do? THEY LEFT and came here. And you know what? They LOVE it. Pledge and all.
  10. by   prn nurse
    Fifty years ago, this was still a Christian country.

    Would you spend thirty minutes writing your president that you want "Under God" kept in the Pledge? No ? .... I didn't think so.

    Christian Americans have given up so many of their rights,... ..'cause it is too much trouble to sit down and write four sentences on a sheet of paper.

    If you think Christians are running your country,....guess again.

    Christians are supporting it....with their tax dollars. But they are not making the decisions on where their money is spent. Or about anything else.
  11. by   susanmary
    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. and to the republic for which it stands: one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

    Nothing else to say......Sue
  12. by   l.rae
    Originally posted by indeed
    Indeed also said that I don't think it should be the way to go about the whole thing initially (trying to change it). I agree, democracy rocks and if the majority wants it, I am SOL. BUT!! The point I am making is that the majority is not always being entirely "fair" to the minority. Just because a majority exists does not imply that they are educated about the minority. The majority of Americans at many points throughout our history thought that it was perfectly alright to deny other Americans the rights they themselves took for granted. And as much as this country belongs to the majority, it also belongs to the minority and that cannot be completely ignored merely because of the EXISTANCE of a majority.

    Indeed.
    Actually, it is the minority who is not fair to the majority, l for one and sick to death of being made to feel guilty for having my own personal convictions, which l do NOT shove down anyone's throat...it is simply a tactic to shut up people by making them feel guilty because they are in the majority. Just because someone voices an oppinion different than yours does not mean they are shoving anything anywhere, they are simply exersizing the same rights that you are, except they are made to feel guilty and offensive and pushy. Sounds like reverse discrimination and hypocrissy to me..a tool used very effectivly when anyone even breaths the name of GOD....Yes there are idiots on the right and left...but l for one have NOT seen one example on this BB since l have become a member (4/02) of any PUSHY tactics, just sharing in a kind and respectful manner....I believe in God...there ,does saying that threaten you...what about this statement is pushy?...NOTHING! if l share my beliefs l'm pushy? lf you share your beliefs you're not pushy?..l do not understand this reasoning...it is a double standard..BIG TIME.....LR
  13. by   Jenny P
    Hmmm, an atheist does not like the phrase "under God" in the Pledge, and suddenly it is unconstitutional. I do not like the phrase "f#@% y#^!", and I am interfering with another persons' right to free speech in a classroom when I told them not to use that language in front of me! How crazy can this country get?

    The local public school can have "holiday" concerts and prohibit any word of "Christmas" or any Christian word or song; but they can sing songs about dreidels, speak about Allah, and whatever else; just DON'T make it Christian!

    I guess I feel as though we have to give up our own beliefs and historical culture so we don't "OFFEND" anybody else. It just doesn't make sense to me!!!! Political Correctness is robbing our society of its' underlying values; and, like everything else, once the infrastructure is destroyed, we are like a house of cards-- we can't be strong and can't go back to strenghten our society if there is nothing left to build on.

    I do believe there should be a way to blend or diversify our society without destroying the basis of it. Maybe by broadening our definitions and ideas instead of giving the words the PC boot, it would help us become a better place to live.
    Last edit by Jenny P on Jun 26, '02
  14. by   OBNURSEHEATHER
    OK. I just wanted to step in here and explain myself, because perhaps my thoughts weren't written as clearly as I thought them.

    A couple of people have made reference to my words about religion being shoved down my throat. I meant that in every other way I don't appreciate this, but that I didn't feel that was the case with The Pledge of Allegiance. I'm not threatened to the references to God because I respect other people's right to worship as they please.

    I don't even know if that will make sense to anyone, but I thought I was misunderstood so I wanted to clarify. But then again, I could have been the one that misunderstood, which would not be a first.

    Great post susanmary! I should have stuck with short and sweet too!

    Heather

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