Nationalism, not Islam, motivates most suicide terrorists

  1. Nationalism, not Islam, motivates most suicide terrorists

    Here is today's discussion question: Suicide terrorism is primarily caused by Islamic fundamentalism. True or false? ...

    http://www.mcall.com/news/opinion/an...,5283521.story
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  2. 21 Comments

  3. by   kitty29
    Don't know that I would agree; since they do not separate church & state...anyway that is how I see it. Personally I think anyone who does such a thing is mentally ill.
  4. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Frankly, if some group was running around saying that Jesus commands them to murder non-Christians: they'd have to get past MY retribution and MY efforts to deal with them without remorse, first.

    I would not suffer my sacred religious beliefs to be so abused.

    Islam suffers from the slight of its radicals because it tolerates its radicals.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  5. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    Frankly, if some group was running around saying that Jesus commands them to murder non-Christians: they'd have to get past MY retribution and MY efforts to deal with them without remorse, first.

    I would not suffer my sacred religious beliefs to be so abused.

    Islam suffers from the slight of its radicals because it tolerates its radicals.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.

    Your last sentence says so much.


    steph
  6. by   pickledpepperRN
    They remember the crusades as if it were just a few years ago.
  7. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from spacenurse
    They remember the crusades as if it were just a few years ago.
    Just like Judaism remembers that the 'Dome of the Rock' was placed there purposely to obliterate the Temple Mount.

    If Christianity was talking about 'crusades' today like Islam talks about 'jihads', this whole issue would take on a profoundly new hue. But, the Christian and Jewish masses haven't yet called for the destruction/occupation of Mecca. Why not? It would be un-Christian/un-Jewish.

    The crusades were a millenia ago, and none of the principle results have stood the test of time.

    On the other hand, I remember 9/11 like it was just a few years ago. And, I've really seen no evidence of Islam, as a whole, distancing itself from such radicalizations.

    I would be the FIRST to contradict and counterdict a return to the crusades. It's not the Christianity I practice. And, I would not passively allow those that WOULD practice Christianity that way be the standard-bearers of my religion.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Sep 10, '06
  8. by   pickledpepperRN
  9. by   kitty29
    [QUOTE=ZASHAGALKA

    Islam suffers from the slight of its radicals because it tolerates its radicals.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, nicely said...and I do know some are trying to do something about it. I've visited that part of the world, and found the people I met very nice.
  10. by   ZASHAGALKA
    To the extent that it IS religiously motivated, it is to forcibly contain the radical elements of Islam from intruding upon other faiths, not to entrench another creed. The radicals have not only hi-jacked our planes, they have hi-jacked the Islamic faith.

    It wasn't just the WTC, the pentagon, four planes and three thousand Americans brutally massacred on 9/11. Islam itself took a large brunt of that assault. And if it were MY faith that was so brutally massacred, I would not sit idly by.

    The very nature in which the new Iraqi gov't is set up cannot lead to any unbiased interpretation that our goal is the suppression of non-hostile Islamic expressions of faith, or the proliferation of non-Islamic creeds.

    Just because it suits some to point and scream, "FIRE", does NOT mean that those being pointed to started a fire. This is especially true when the only matches around are in THEIR hands. We aren't there to start fires; we're there to confiscate the matches.

    Islam has a choice to make: either the radicals represent the 'faith', or they don't. That is not a choice that can be made passively. Passivity, as the phrase goes, is 'the silent consent of the majority'.

    'Nationalism' might be the motivation, but Islam is the pretext. Those murderers are not being offered tax rebates in the hereafter. Too bad they listened to the radicals because what they WERE offered isn't real. Not just MY God condemns such acts, the Allah of Muhammad does, too.

    How horrible it must be to wilt in front of the Mighty Allah with the only excuse for such atrocities being, "I did it for You." I would give up all 72 virgins and Paradise itself to shield myself from that reproof. Not that they ever had such things to begin with.

    See, the Allah of Muhammad is the very same God of Abraham. And I happen to know something about His Power and just vengeance.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Sep 10, '06
  11. by   fotografe
    [quote=ZASHAGALKA] And, I've really seen no evidence of Islam, as a whole, distancing itself from such radicalizations.

    That is because the voices that condemn those radicals are not interesting to hear. I can't tell you how many peaceful demonstrations my family has attended here in the Boston area where the first words out of the speakers' mouths were "We condemn all acts of violence. They are not Islamic". Yet there were no or few tv cameras there. The only pictures that appear in the paper are of the one crazy guy who ALWAYS shows up at these things with an outlandish sign condemning Israel. I took my daughter to a gathering recently to condemn the invasion of Lebanon and the firing of rockets by Hezbollah on civilian targets. Yes we condemned both acts. All there condemned both acts. Muslims, Chistians and Jews all represented. It was a peaceful AND collaborative event. Nothing in the news about it. My daughter asked me afterwards "Did George Bush hear me today?" I sadly had to tell her no. Hardly anyone heard us today. But we do still need to keep talking. Teaching.

    We paid a visit to the Holocaust memorial in Downtown Boston and I explained to her what happened and who Adolf Hitler was. I told her it is important for us to speak up when we see something that is not right. She asked how we stop the killing in Iraq. I said we talk to our President through our Senators and Congressman. She asked who that was. Who does she talk to. She stood under those glass towers, my little 5 year old,
    imploring Ted Kennedy to stop the killing. So that her best friend could go home to visit her dying grandmother. And when the invasion of Lebanon happened, the Holocaust memorial was the first place she wanted to go. Not as an anti-Israel statement. She thinks of those towers as a place where you right wrongs. Where you stand up and speak out the truth.

    So TImothy, the voices are out there and they ARE numerous. It is as much a fault of the media that those voices are not heard as it is that not enough are screaming from the rooftops. Peace is not interesting news. That is the sad reality.

    Be sure that I, and lots of other parents out there. are teaching our children to use their voices. I am hoping her generation can turn this mess around. Ours has failed miserably.

    To hear statements from the American Islamic community, I suggest you subscribe to the newsletter of CAIR -- the COuncil on American Islamic Relations. They do an excellent job of gathering news about the activities of the Muslim community in the UNited States. You don't have to agree with all of their posiitons, but you will at least HEAR what those positions are. You can not rely on mainstream media to bring it to you.
    Last edit by fotografe on Sep 10, '06
  12. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from fotografe
    That is because the voices that condemn those radicals are not interesting to hear. I can't tell you how many peaceful demonstrations my family has attended here in the Boston area where the first words out of the speakers' mouths were "We condemn all acts of violence. They are not Islamic". Yet there were no or few tv cameras there. The only pictures that appear in the paper are of the one crazy guy who ALWAYS shows up at these things with an outlandish sign condemning Israel. I took my daughter to a gathering recently to condemn the invasion of Lebanon and the firing of rockets by Hezbollah on civilian targets. Yes we condemned both acts. All there condemned both acts. Muslims, Chistians and Jews all represented. It was a peaceful AND collaborative event. Nothing in the news about it. My daughter asked me afterwards "Did George Bush hear me today?" I sadly had to tell her no. Hardly anyone heard us today. But we do still need to keep talking. Teaching.

    We paid a visit to the Holocaust memorial in Downtown Boston and I explained to her what happened and who Adolf Hitler was. I told her it is important for us to speak up when we see something that is not right. She asked how we stop the killing in Iraq. I said we talk to our President through our Senators and Congressman. She asked who that was. Who does she talk to. She stood under those glass towers, my little 5 year old,
    imploring Ted Kennedy to stop the killing. So that her best friend could go home to visit her dying grandmother. And when the invasion of Lebanon happened, the Holocaust memorial was the first place she wanted to go. Not as an anti-Israel statement. She thinks of those towers as a place where you right wrongs. Where you stand up and speak out the truth.

    So TImothy, the voices are out there and they ARE numerous. It is as much a fault of the media that those voices are not heard as it is that not enough are screaming from the rooftops. Peace is not interesting news. That is the sad reality.

    Be sure that I, and lots of other parents out there. are teaching our children to use their voices. I am hoping her generation can turn this mess around. Ours has failed miserably.

    To hear statements from the American Islamic community, I suggest you subscribe to the newsletter of CAIR -- the COuncil on American Islamic Relations. They do an excellent job of gathering news about the activities of the Muslim community in the UNited States. You don't have to agree with all of their posiitons, but you will at least HEAR what those positions are. You can not rely on mainstream media to bring it to you.
    I will certainly consider subscribing to CAIR, but, really, I wasn't truly speaking of American Muslims. I know how stridently you oppose the misinterpretations of your faith. And, I know that 9/11 was just as personal for you.

    In reality, my comments are more aimed at those in the region. The Clerics of Iran practically endorse such behavior. And in Egypt, Saudi, and the whole M. East rim, there is much silence on the issue. Even as many of those nations aid America in the war on terror, they prefer to do so quietly. There are exceptions, of course.

    And I have every belief in the fact that the media is not normally unbiased, politically or otherwise. When I was much younger, I used to be thankful that at least I live in America were the news is free and true. In my aging, I have discovered that the news should be much more aggressively dug out. The media rarely outright lies, but you are correct in that they 'lie by omission' when it comes to how they report things.

    And I agree with Spacenurse's original thread title, nationalism IS more at issue than faith. If the Israli/Palestinian conflict were resolved, that would go far to reduce such radicalism in the region. Radicalism only gets a foothold where desperation abounds.

    And, it is quite easy for Americans to turn on the TV and see the M. East dancing after terror attacks and assume the link to Islam when in reality, the faithful would never dance about such things.

    All these things I understand. Still, it saddens me that the religious leaders in the region don't take a larger stand to protect their faith. If it were my religion under attack (and I think that Islam is just as much under attack as 'the West'), I would go out of my way to point it out.

    I know those in America, in fact, DO go out of their way to do just that. And, I appreciate that.

    As I was typing this, the news was saying that more immigrants of Islamic faith came to America last year than any other year. And why not? It's a great place to live, regardless of faith.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Sep 10, '06
  13. by   CHATSDALE
    there was a item on the news about pop benedict saying something about the islam why do people put their foot in thier mouth i don't know but know the militaant muslins are screaming foul
    they didn't seem to object when the usa/england were called the 'great satan' there has been burnings at several christian churches in mid-east
    countries....this is islamic not national pride - i have pride in my country but i would never set a fire at an american mosque
  14. by   fotografe
    Quote from CHATSDALE
    there was a item on the news about pop benedict saying something about the islam why do people put their foot in thier mouth i don't know but know the militaant muslins are screaming foul
    they didn't seem to object when the usa/england were called the 'great satan' there has been burnings at several christian churches in mid-east
    countries....this is islamic not national pride - i have pride in my country but i would never set a fire at an american mosque

    Burning a Christian Church is no more "Islamic" than the fires (yes, more than once) started at my family's mosque were "Christian". Unfortunately, there are insane people out their on all sides. The insane voices are sometimes the only ones you hear because they are the most interesting to put on the newscasts. Please check out the CAIR website for a better understanding where the American Muslims stand and what their voices are saying.

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