Message by John McCain about the Pledge - page 4

In light of the recent appeals court ruling in California, with respect to the Pledge of Allegiance, the following recollection from Senator John McCain is very appropriate:. "The Pledge of... Read More

  1. by   FranEMTnurse
    Quote from MellowOne
    Well, my first lessons in patriotism were in school. They gave me alot of hope for the future, understanding what a great country we live in. Our schools taught of the wrongs that the U.S. has done as well as the rights. Of course, I was in school at the height of the cold war, so I appreciated our freedom compared to the oppression and dismal living conditions of Soviet block nations. That hope was important to me in that my family sucked. I knew that once I finished school, I could make my own way because of the freedom that we have. It was also taught that our freedom has come at a heavy price, and that not only do we owe many a debt of gratitude, but that part of the cost to keep that freedom is born by all of us.

    I went directly from high school into the Army. Patriotism there is obviously such that one is willing to die for country. I'm still in the Army Reserves, and still hold to that level of patriotism.

    To me, patriotism isn't a government tool. It's a deep love and reverence for the vision of the founding fathers, the Constitution, and the principles of freedom and national duty that make the U.S. unique. It's understanding the pain and blood that brought America from a group of colonies to a nation in which slavery was the norm to a country with legal oppression of the minority to a country where everyone is able to succeed on his own merits.

    Patriotism means revering the people who have paid for this growth of a nation in blood, sweat, and tears. That means the founding fathers, those who have fought in wars, those who have served the peace, those who have fought for civil rights, and on and on.

    Left-wingers like to look down their noses and ridicule the concept of patriotism. I don't understand the hatred toward the U.S. that comes from the left. To me, that shows disrespect for alot of people who have paid dearly to allow them to verbalize their ingratitude.

    But that's just me...

    Be well...

    The Mellow One
    Very well put Mellow One. And I admire you for saying it, and for serving our country. I feel that people who serve their fellow man via the profession they choose, their civic duty to country, are those who like ourselves are where we belong.

    Peace to all.
    Last edit by FranEMTnurse on Apr 6, '04
  2. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from MellowOne
    Well, my first lessons in patriotism were in school. They gave me alot of hope for the future, understanding what a great country we live in. Our schools taught of the wrongs that the U.S. has done as well as the rights. Of course, I was in school at the height of the cold war, so I appreciated our freedom compared to the oppression and dismal living conditions of Soviet block nations. That hope was important to me in that my family sucked. I knew that once I finished school, I could make my own way because of the freedom that we have. It was also taught that our freedom has come at a heavy price, and that not only do we owe many a debt of gratitude, but that part of the cost to keep that freedom is born by all of us.

    I went directly from high school into the Army. Patriotism there is obviously such that one is willing to die for country. I'm still in the Army Reserves, and still hold to that level of patriotism.

    To me, patriotism isn't a government tool. It's a deep love and reverence for the vision of the founding fathers, the Constitution, and the principles of freedom and national duty that make the U.S. unique. It's understanding the pain and blood that brought America from a group of colonies to a nation in which slavery was the norm to a country with legal oppression of the minority to a country where everyone is able to succeed on his own merits.

    Patriotism means revering the people who have paid for this growth of a nation in blood, sweat, and tears. That means the founding fathers, those who have fought in wars, those who have served the peace, those who have fought for civil rights, and on and on.

    Left-wingers like to look down their noses and ridicule the concept of patriotism. I don't understand the hatred toward the U.S. that comes from the left. To me, that shows disrespect for alot of people who have paid dearly to allow them to verbalize their ingratitude.

    But that's just me...

    Be well...

    The Mellow One
    What I was trying to say only you said it better. It is the way I grew up.

    steph
  3. by   Mkue
    Awesome post MellowOne
  4. by   pickledpepperRN
    "To be conservative at 20 is heartless and to be a liberal at 60 is plain idiocy"

    Winston Churchill

    God willing I will be 60 this year.
    Will I still be a patriotic liberal idiot who know better than to look down her nose at anyone?
  5. by   wjf00
    Quote from MellowOne

    According to an MSNBC article, nearly 9 in 10 people want the pledge to stay as is.


    The Mellow One
    Then the 9 out of 10 are free to pledge to their hearts content, while the 1 out of 10 should be free to turn their back or read the Koran or twiddle their thumbs if they so desire.
  6. by   bluesky
    Quote from MellowOne
    Well, my first lessons in patriotism were in school. They gave me alot of hope for the future, understanding what a great country we live in. Our schools taught of the wrongs that the U.S. has done as well as the rights. Of course, I was in school at the height of the cold war, so I appreciated our freedom compared to the oppression and dismal living conditions of Soviet block nations. That hope was important to me in that my family sucked. I knew that once I finished school, I could make my own way because of the freedom that we have. It was also taught that our freedom has come at a heavy price, and that not only do we owe many a debt of gratitude, but that part of the cost to keep that freedom is born by all of us.

    I went directly from high school into the Army. Patriotism there is obviously such that one is willing to die for country. I'm still in the Army Reserves, and still hold to that level of patriotism.

    To me, patriotism isn't a government tool. It's a deep love and reverence for the vision of the founding fathers, the Constitution, and the principles of freedom and national duty that make the U.S. unique. It's understanding the pain and blood that brought America from a group of colonies to a nation in which slavery was the norm to a country with legal oppression of the minority to a country where everyone is able to succeed on his own merits.

    Patriotism means revering the people who have paid for this growth of a nation in blood, sweat, and tears. That means the founding fathers, those who have fought in wars, those who have served the peace, those who have fought for civil rights, and on and on.

    Left-wingers like to look down their noses and ridicule the concept of patriotism. I don't understand the hatred toward the U.S. that comes from the left. To me, that shows disrespect for alot of people who have paid dearly to allow them to verbalize their ingratitude.

    But that's just me...

    Be well...

    The Mellow One
    This is a fine example of the manipulation that I am referring to. AGAIN, it is my belief that patriotism is a sentiment that self-serving politicians use to get people to do things for them. For example, kill innocent civilians in Vietnam LIKE MY FATHER DID. You wouldn't need the patriotism piece to move people to act in the interest of freedom as this should be a universal value (and by the way not unique to our country's constitution- we actually borrowed many of the principles from the French Revolution).

    And, by the way, looking down your nose at "left-wingers" shows disrespect for the people who brought you civil rights, labor laws, and voting priviledges for all but white landowners. It never ceases to amaze me how the right has suddenly decided to appropriate the civil rights movement as "American" and "patriotic". The civil rights movement occurred because African Americans created a movement of empowerment for themselves in the context of a nation that was not living up to it's constitutional mandate.

    I have the utmost respect for any person who decides to sacrifice their lives for something greater than themselves- I just have reservations about the rhetoric that is used to convince them to do so. Creating patriotic verve is the process of using these precious values that we all celebrate to questionable ends at times. The evidence is ample.
  7. by   Dplear
    Bkuesky...patroitism is love for your country. I really feel sorry for you if you consider your father a murderer, because it sounds like you do. He was a soldier doing his duty in a land far from home in a time period far from this one.

    Freedom is NOT a universally accepted ideal. many countries and people do not believe in personal or group freedom. Try talking about freedom in Downtown Tehran or even downtown Beijing. Maybe downtown Pongyang is acceptable for thoughts of freedom. Not going to happen in those places unless there are regieme changes.

    Oh by the way...google your history..the French revolution happened AFTER our revolution.

    Dave
  8. by   Jaaaman
    Quote from bluesky
    This is a fine example of the manipulation that I am referring to. AGAIN, it is my belief that patriotism is a sentiment that self-serving politicians use to get people to do things for them. For example, kill innocent civilians in Vietnam LIKE MY FATHER DID.
    Innocent civilians die in war. They have since the beginning of time. I do not feel like most american soldiers in Vietnam killed innocent civilians on purpose. Most of them were like most ordinary american people, just trying to do there assigned jobs and SURVIVE. That comment is a slap in the face for people who had a very dangerous and difficult mission to fulfill. By the way, most of them didn't have a choice to serve in Vietnam because THEY WERE DRAFTED! :angryfire
    Last edit by Jaaaman on Apr 7, '04
  9. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from spacenurse
    "To be conservative at 20 is heartless and to be a liberal at 60 is plain idiocy"

    Winston Churchill

    God willing I will be 60 this year.
    Will I still be a patriotic liberal idiot who know better than to look down her nose at anyone?
    Spacenurse . . . . there was a thread recently where people where using a paraphrase of the above quote without credit for who said it. It has been one of my favorites so I thought I'd post who said it and how he said it.

    The ideas behind it are interesting. When you are young you tend to be more idealistic and utopia-oriented. As you live a bit, you tend to become more realistic as you encounter the bumps in the road. For me personally that quote describes me . . . I was a young idealistic liberal Democrat for a long time. Then I encountered real life in ways I've described here before and swung to the opposite pole. I find myself trying to find middle ground now as I don't see everything as completely black and white anymore. And I am way more skeptical of arguments on both sides of the issue, of course my skepticism is skewed a bit more towards the liberal arguments.

    steph
  10. by   fergus51
    I get sad when I see the other side being painted as stupid or ignorant or hateful or whatever.

    This is one of the reasons I think it would be a good idea to keep political dogma out of school, and that seems to be what the pledge has become. It is true that a child who doesn't want to recite the pledge can sit quietly, but will they be subjected to the same kind of anger that we see on this thread for that choice? Will we be saying they are unpatriotic, unamerican, disrespectful, ungrateful or lacking character? Or even worse...... LEFT WINGERS (gasp!)? Seems like more of a distraction to education than anything else.
  11. by   pickledpepperRN
    Steph:
    I was in Northern California recently (Willits), I was told the lumber mill is colsed because the work is being done outside the country. Sounds like the Lou Dobbs 'Outsourcing of America' series.
    I saw trucks with logs but missed the sound of the whistle at the mill.
    Can this be true? Our trees being made into boards etcetera outside the USA?

    PS, I was hiking through a swarm of gnats. My husband got one in his eye. I accidentally became the old woman who swallowed a fly!
    Perhaps I'll die!
    No, the meal was NOT followed by a spider, bird, cat and so on.
    Never opened my throat and in went a goat.
  12. by   MellowOne
    Quote from wjf00
    Then the 9 out of 10 are free to pledge to their hearts content, while the 1 out of 10 should be free to turn their back or read the Koran or twiddle their thumbs if they so desire.
    They are...

    Be well...

    The Mellow One
  13. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from fergus51
    I just think that implies that those who object to the pledge are somehow less American. I don't think that's true and think that if you want your kids to grow up with character that's your job. I don't see why the school is responsible for raising children. My parents instilled morals in me without a pledge at school.
    I totally agree.

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