Lamb killers may not get away with it

  1. This story is probably only going to be of interest to people from a very limited geographic area, and it isn't the least bit relevant to nursing, so I couldn't post it on the PA board. It is very interesting to me, though- there are literally hundreds of messages concerning this on a western PA board that I visit.

    http://www.tribune-democrat.com/loca...277000222.html

    What this particular article doesn't say is that initially the Cambria County DA declined to get involved at all, claiming the fact that the farmer settled with the parents was good enough. It was only after the public outcry started that he contacted the state with news of the conflict of interest- that same conflict of interest was the reason he was just going to let these boys get away with this. It is just the way things have always been done in that part of the state (and I am referring specifically to Cambria County, not even necessarily western PA as a whole). Last year, for example, the superintendent's nephew was named valedictorian of his graduating class despite the fact that another student had a higher GPA. The school board did nothing. I thank the Internet and the ability to spread news of such outrages far and wide and quickly for heralding the beginning of the end of this outrageous behavior (and I apologize to my blog buddies who already heard the valedictorian story and will spare them hearing the newspaper award story again!)
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  2. 28 Comments

  3. by   indigo girl
    This is pathological behavior and should be raising red flags about the kids involved. That community should be very alarmed. This type of thing makes me go ballistic!! I would be unable to let it go unchallenged.

    In my neck of the woods, two teens were convicted of stoning to death, two swans. People were ready to hang, draw, and quarter them!

    I can not stand the senseless torture and killing of any helpless being, people or animal.
    Last edit by indigo girl on Oct 5, '06
  4. by   Spidey's mom
    What exactly happened to the lambs? I don't get any details from the article.

    I cannot even be on our ranch when our "beef" is shot and then hung and later cut up into parts. My dh tells stories about having to kill the chicken for Sunday dinner. Etc.

    Even "normal" stories about how food gets to the grocery store makes me sick to my stomach and I become a vegetarian again.

    steph
  5. by   indigo girl
    You can not help but notice the symbolism. They killed lambs, for goodness sake. Just as here, they killed swans. Why pick these symbols of beauty, purity and innocence?
  6. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from indigo girl
    This is pathological behavior and should be raising red flags about the kids involved. That community should be very alarmed. This type of thing makes me go ballistic!! I would be unable to let it go unchallenged.

    In my neck of the woods, two teens were convicted of stoning to death, two swans. People were ready to hang, draw, and quarter them!

    I can not stand the senseless torture and killing of any helpless being, people or animal.
    You are so right. Have there been any serial killers who didn't start with animal torture, I wonder? There was a very ritualistic nature to these killings. It is downright scary. And they were just going to get away with it!
  7. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from stevielynn
    What exactly happened to the lambs? I don't get any details from the article.

    I cannot even be on our ranch when our "beef" is shot and then hung and later cut up into parts. My dh tells stories about having to kill the chicken for Sunday dinner. Etc.

    Even "normal" stories about how food gets to the grocery store makes me sick to my stomach and I become a vegetarian again.

    steph
    I actually tried to choose an article that didn't go into very much detail. The way these lambs were killed does not make for polite dinner conversation, let's put it that way...

    Another aspect not covered in this article, but widely available by google search for anyone interested is the fact that 2 of these boys are on the homecoming court, AFTER the principal called a re-vote because he was upset about his ''chosen'' few not being elected the first time around!
  8. by   indigo girl
    Don't let them get away with it!!

    http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer...cruelty_report
  9. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from mercyteapot
    I actually tried to choose an article that didn't go into very much detail. The way these lambs were killed does not make for polite dinner conversation, let's put it that way...

    Another aspect not covered in this article, but widely available by google search for anyone interested is the fact that 2 of these boys are on the homecoming court, AFTER the principal called a re-vote because he was upset about his ''chosen'' few not being elected the first time around!
    There is something wrong with my computer and it takes absolutely forever to even open another window so it will take me a bit to google it . . . .

    Ok - so, I just spent about 10 minutes googling it and there are NO details about what happened to the lambs except they were killed, skinned and the remains tossed in the woods. I even went to PETA and that is all they said.

    Not that the above isn't stomach turning . . . nevermind, I guess the truth is I don't need details.

    Those guilty need to be punished, made to pay for the lambs and do some community service.

    steph
  10. by   indigo girl
    With this type of crime, I think psych evals should be mandatory. Won't happen though, I know.
  11. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from stevielynn
    There is something wrong with my computer and it takes absolutely forever to even open another window so it will take me a bit to google it . . . .

    Ok - so, I just spent about 10 minutes googling it and there are NO details about what happened to the lambs except they were killed, skinned and the remains tossed in the woods. I even went to PETA and that is all they said.

    Not that the above isn't stomach turning . . . nevermind, I guess the truth is I don't need details.

    Those guilty need to be punished, made to pay for the lambs and do some community service.

    steph
    Well, since I was just whining about how much work I had to do, I decided that it would be a really good idea for me to spend the last half hour trying to track down one of the articles I read that described the killings themselves. :uhoh21: (and you just know that now I'll whining about my workload tomorrow, too!) However, I couldn't find one.... hmmmm... I guess I was thinking of the posts on the local message board. Several of the articles do mention mutilation, though, and suffice to say it is an apt description of what is ''rumored'' to have happened. According to some of the other articles published, the parents did pay the farmer. There have been student reports that some of the kids involved have approached their classmates for $ to pay their parents back, but who knows if that is true.
  12. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from indigo girl
    With this type of crime, I think psych evals should be mandatory. Won't happen though, I know.
    It might now... I didn't even realize that PETA was involved until another poster mentioned it.
  13. by   mercyteapot
    For once reason has prevailed and at least the golden children won't be allowed to participate on the homecoming court... No word about whether the rightful participants, who had been voted in before the principal ordered the revote, will get to take their place...

    http://www.tribune-democrat.com/loca...278230551.html
  14. by   Logan
    hi,

    some of my impressions:

    from the original article:
    the farm owner accepted restitution for the dead animals and so far has not pressed charges. authorities, however, still can file other charges.
    Quote from defenition from dcitionary.com
    restitution = damages: a sum of money paid in compensation for loss or injury
    in my humble opinion - this is an open and shut case. two idiots vandalised the property of the farmer. farmer has accepted restitution for the damages to his property. he has declined to press charges - though he is within the law to do so.

    to my humble self, that speaks volumes.

    now ofcourse, seeing how many posts on this thread have refered to "psych evals", i felt i ought to offer this in return. puerly from a "discussion" perspective (i say from a "discussion perspective" because i don't desire anyone to get offended, nor do i wish snarky comments in response).

    just because serial killers and rapists tend to do some particular thing while young doesn't mean that everyone who does that particular thing while young is in danger of becoming a serial killer or rapist.

    i can already see a counter argument:

    criminals who have displayed animal cruelty in their childhood also seem to be more prone to aggressive violence against humans - i.e. serial murderers.

    and it's not me just saying so: the dsm (iv) lists animal cruelty as a "conduct disorder".

    since the late 1970s, the fbi has considered animal cruelty to be a possible indicator of future serial murder. the fbi documented the connection between cruelty to animals and serial murder following a study of 35 imprisoned serial murderers. the convicted murderers were asked questions regarding their child-hood cruelty toward animals. more than half of the serial murderers admitted tohurting or torturing animals as children or adolescents (humane society of theunited states, 2001).
    @ :: http://ddl.uwinnipeg.ca/viol_cr/file.../reading11.pdf

    yes, and i'll bet that if the fbi conducted a survery interviewing 35 inmates about their breathing as youngsters, they'd find a curious similarity in the responses.

    new rule: just because a governmental body conducts a survey does not validate its legitimacy.

    likely, a survey of all persons (not just incarcerated criminals) with questions about animal cruelty might be much more illuminating and well worth the fbi's time. it is quite possible that 98% of all children are especially cruel to animals, and thus the propensity of serial killers and rapists toward same activities means absolutely nothing.

    if what i said above makes no sense, let me try a different approach:
    all of group a does action b. therefore anyone who does action b must belong to group a. that basically was what was being said in the original statement--or implied.

    but isn't it possible that some of the people who do action b are not included in group a?

    let me use this example:
    all birds have two legs.
    people have two legs.
    therefore people are birds.

    sounds silly don't it.

    back to the point, just cause i beat a groundhog to death with a pole iron when i was a child doesn't make me a serial killer, etc.

    now you might come back with:
    yes, breathing and eating parsley are also common traits, but if you are trying to build a profile - including these two commonalities would make the target group simply too large.
    this is what i'm talking about. i have (still) not seen any statistics on the commonality of children exhibiting 'cruelty' to animals (which has yet to be defined, i might add), so i don't see how anyone can draw such a distinction between cruelty to animals and eating parsley. it is the idea of 'trying to build a profile' based on purely inductive reasoning that is unnerving, no matter how much you couch your terms.


    my rather weighty


    thanks,
    matthew (who, considering his post above, no doubt eats babies for lunch).

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