Kerry's war wounds

  1. "While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

    Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."

    -- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN (retired)
    http://home.earthlink.net/~proudcapm...rans/id18.html

    Does anyone have any information about his wounds? and length of time he was in 'nam for both tours?
    Is this information correct?
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  2. 12 Comments

  3. by   pickledpepperRN
    Why has the so called "liberal media" NOT publicised any of what is publically available? Called to active duty May 1923, requested discharge September of the same year?
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    The St Louis National Personnel Records center has confirmed that Bush had approximately six months tacked onto his military obligation: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/slpcreply.jpg
    Second Bush request for temporary transfer: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc2.gif
    Annual Officer Effectiveness Report part 1: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc4.gif
    HQ disallows transfer: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc5.gif
    lt. Colonel Brickens Response: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc6.gif
    First transfer request: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc7.gif
    Annual Officer Effectiveness Report part 2: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc9.gif
    Chronological Listing : http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif
    HQ approval: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc11.gif
    HQ request for more information: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc12.gif
    Bush duty assignments: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc14.gif
    1973 days credited: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc16.gif
    Orders to report for active duty: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc17.gif
    Bush request for discharge from Texas Air NationalGuard and Transfer to inactive reserves: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/Doc20.gif
    Texas Air National Guard OK for transfer to inactive reserves: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/Doc21.gif
    Bush discharge papers: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/ANG22.gif
    Penalty for bad attendance: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc23.gif
    Statement of intent: "Flying is lifetime goal.": http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc24.gif
    TXANG Request to be notified if Bush is assigned to reserves. May 72: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc25.gif
    Contract of Service: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc26.gif
    Request Discharge: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc27.gif
    "Not available for administrative reasons.": http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc28.gif
    Bush's suspension from flying: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/grounded.gif
    Here is the unaltered Document 99 Note that there is no handwriting applied to this document. The one used by George Magazine has been altered at a later date. : http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc99.gif.
    Some questions about Bush's past "Were you ever arrested" http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/arrest2.jpg
    -----------------------------------------
    American Gulf War Veterans Association
    Joyce Riley vonKleist, RN,BSN spokesperson
    P.O. Box 85, Versailles, Missouri 65084
    (573) 378-6049 (573) 378-5998 fax
    http://www.gulfwarvets.com gulfwar@dam.net
    February 5, 2004

    RELEASE OF PRESIDENT BUSH'S MILITARY RECORDS PROVE HE IS GUILTY OF MILITARY CRIMES

    The American Gulf War Veterans Association can no longer remain silent on the subject of George W. Bush's military records. FOX NEWS reporter Sean Hannity stated Wednesday evening that this was a question that had been resolved. Guest Howard Wolfson responded by saying that the President should release his records. If the media had been doing their homework they would know that the records have already been released. It is because of the actual content that these military records are not being disclosed.

    Joyce Riley, spokesperson of The American Gulf War Veterans Association revealed on air in a two hour "white paper" report yesterday, Feb. 4, 2004, on The Power Hour radio show, that George W. Bush's military records indicate that he was not present for his entire six year required service to the military. Even more shocking and significant is that he did, in fact, deny a direct order, during time of war, and was suspended from flying. The debate may rage on the major networks about whether or not he was AWOL, however the documentation exists and is available at http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm
    Mr. Bush's records do prove without a doubt that he denied a direct order during time of war, and this, by definition is Treason.

    The AGWVA will provide FOX NEWS, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and BBC with copies of these documents by contacting this organization. The millions of prior service personnel who served proudly will be outraged when they read what the present Commander in Chief is guilty of --and is not being held accountable for. Innocent troops that are simply protecting their health and their families from the anthrax vaccine are being court martialed. How can the President stand before them when he is guilty of so much worse? Full reports on the military records of George W. Bush will be available at: www.gulfwarvets.com
    Last edit by pickledpepperRN on Jul 15, '04
  4. by   mscsrjhm
    [QUOTE=spacenurse]Why has the so called "liberal media" NOT publised any of what is publically available?


    RELEASE OF PRESIDENT BUSH'S MILITARY RECORDS PROVE HE IS GUILTY OF MILITARY CRIMES

    The American Gulf War Veterans Association can no longer remain silent on the subject of George W. Bush's military records. FOX NEWS reporter Sean Hannity stated Wednesday evening that this was a question that had been resolved. Guest Howard Wolfson responded by saying that the President should release his records. If the media had been doing their homework they would know that the records have already been released. It is because of the actual content that these military records are not being disclosed.

    Joyce Riley, spokesperson of The American Gulf War Veterans Association revealed on air in a two hour "white paper" report yesterday, Feb. 4, 2004, on The Power Hour radio show, (www.thepowerhour.com) that George W. Bush's military records indicate that he was not present for his entire six year required service to the military. Even more shocking and significant is that he did, in fact, deny a direct order, during time of war, and was suspended from flying. The debate may rage on the major networks about whether or not he was AWOL, however the documentation exists and is available at http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm
    Mr. Bush's records do prove without a doubt that he denied a direct order during time of war, and this, by definition is Treason.

    The AGWVA will provide FOX NEWS, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and BBC with copies of these documents by contacting this organization. The millions of prior service personnel who served proudly will be outraged when they read what the present Commander in Chief is guilty of --and is not being held accountable for. Innocent troops that are simply protecting their health and their families from the anthrax vaccine are being court martialed. How can the President stand before them when he is guilty of so much worse? Full reports on the military records of George W. Bush will be available at: www.gulfwarvets.com[/QUOTE/


    This site has an audio clip of John Kerry talking about violating the Genova convention while in Vietnam.
    http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

    Kerry's own admission. Then why is he so gung-ho happy about his tours in Vietnam? Shouldn't he be accountable for what he confesses to?
  5. by   mscsrjhm
    Kerry's War Wound Called 'Fingernail Scrape'

    Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry insisted on being awarded his first Purple Heart in Vietnam even though his injury amounted to no more than a "fingernail scrape," his commanding officer at the time now says.

    Retired Lt. Cmdr. Grant Hibbard tells the Boston Globe that he can still recall Kerry's wound, and that "it resembled a scrape from a fingernail," the paper said.

    "I've had thorns from a rose that were worse," Hibbard insists.

    Still, the former Navy man remembered that Kerry insisted on receiving a Purple Heart for the wound he said was incurred during a Dec. 3, 1968 skirmish with Viet Cong near Cam Ranh Bay.

    "He had a little scratch on his forearm, and he was holding a piece of shrapnel," Hibbard told the Globe. "People in the office were saying, 'I don't think we got any fire,' and there is a guy holding a little piece of shrapnel in his palm."

    Much to Hibbard's chagrin, Kerry persisted in his quest for a war decoration for the scratch.

    "I finally said, 'OK, if that's what happened ... do whatever you want,'" Hibbard said. "After that, I don't know what happened. Obviously, he got it, I don't know how."

    Kerry's campaign refused to say whether he remains certain that his skimmer boat had come under fire or whether he recalls his superior officer raising doubts about whether he was entitled to the Purple Heart.

    While a Kerry aide provided a copy of a medical report showing treatment for the wound in question, The Naval Historical Center "could not locate a copy of the original card for the incident," the Globe said.

    Kerry was awarded two additional Purple Hearts for subsequent wounds that have also been described as minor. He then invoked a little-used regulation that entitled a triple Purple Heart winner to return to the United States. Former Sen. Max Cleland, a Kerry supporter who lost three limbs in Vietnam, was never awarded a Purple Heart.
    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...4/103222.shtml

    A simple search keeps coming up with this type of info.
  6. by   pickledpepperRN
    Previously posted by elkpark:

    http://allnurses.com/forums/showthre...t=70940&page=1
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp
    http://diodon349.com/Politics_2004/j...29goldsbh.html
    _____________________________

    You can go RIGHT NOW the the nearest center that feeds the homeless and meet people who are veterans of that horrible war.
    I WISH I HAD PROTESTED THE VIET NAM WAR!
    I did spent hundreds of hours listening to returning men from that horrible war. Many told of similar horrors.
    Orders to shoot the VC only to go into the huts and find dead children, babies, women, and old people. I cry with regret that I was too immature as a young nurse to do more than listen and pray with them. I could not save their limbs or their innocence.

    My cousin was killed in Viet Nam in 1966. His best friend told me with very little emotion of killing innocent children. "That's just how it was".
    He finally broke down sobbing on a bench outside Sleeping Beauties Castle at Disneyland. Later he married. He joined a support group at the VA led by a nurse who had been captured and reped by VC. She then was courtmarshalled when in a hospital with a high fever, losing toes, and accused of treason because she didn't die so was found with her rapists. Exonerated she couldn't adjust to nursing work in the states. Our discussion of such trivia as fashion and recipies was too trivial for her to bear after all the unnecessary deaths of young people she had seen.
  7. by   elkpark
    A simple search keeps coming up with this type of info.
    Or this type of info:

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

    http://diodon349.com/Politics_2004/...urple_heart.htm

    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2...rple/index.html

    http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/jsp...itle=John+Kerry

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/union...e29goldsbh.html

    If I were supporting the guy who used his family's political connections to avoid serving in combat when our country was at war and then couldn't even be bothered to fulfill the obligations he agreed to when he got his safe, cushy slot in the Nat'l Air Guard, I wouldn't be in such a big hurry to complain that the other guy wasn't wounded severely enough in combat to suit me ... But, hey, that's just me ...
  8. by   mscsrjhm
    Quote from elkpark
    Or this type of info:
    Quote from elkpark

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

    http://diodon349.com/Politics_2004/...urple_heart.htm

    http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2...rple/index.html

    http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/jsp...itle=John+Kerry

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/union...e29goldsbh.html

    If I were supporting the guy who used his family's political connections to avoid serving in combat when our country was at war and then couldn't even be bothered to fulfill the obligations he agreed to when he got his safe, cushy slot in the Nat'l Air Guard, I wouldn't be in such a big hurry to complain that the other guy wasn't wounded severely enough in combat to suit me ... But, hey, that's just me ...


    These sites say the same story... that his wounds were minimal. two flesh wounds, one wound that took him out of commission for 2 days.
    Are there any vets on this site to confirm whether three purple hearts in 4 months was the norm, or abnorm?
  9. by   elkpark
    The sites also say that the same standards were applied to him that applied to everyone else -- the military doesn't distinguish between minor and major wounds in awarding Purple Hearts. He was wounded in combat three times. Again, how severely would you like him to have been wounded? How severely would he need to have been wounded for you to respect his service in combat to this country?
  10. by   movealong
    I really don't believe Kerry had control over what part of his body has hit. good grief.
  11. by   mscsrjhm
    Quote from elkpark
    The sites also say that the same standards were applied to him that applied to everyone else -- the military doesn't distinguish between minor and major wounds in awarding Purple Hearts. He was wounded in combat three times. Again, how severely would you like him to have been wounded? How severely would he need to have been wounded for you to respect his service in combat to this country?


    Just looking for info. Some of the information said that it was unusual to receive 3 purple hearts in 4 months. One site quoted the Col. that Kerry insisted on the purple heart.
    I didn't think the purple heart was common, but I admit total ignorance. So, I am searching for information.
  12. by   pickledpepperRN
    Here you are. Both candidates!
    Sorry, my computer won't copy the PDF e-dress. I am tired but you can use the link.

    http://news.findlaw.com/legalnews/li...2004/docs.html

    Military Service Records of Senator John F. Kerry
    Records of Senator Kerry's military service in the U.S. Navy during the Vietnam War. Military Records of Lieutenant (Junior Grade) John F. Kerry for U.S. Navy Military Service During The Vietnam War, 1968 - 1969 Note: Kerry was promoted to (Full) Lieutenant on Jan. 1, 1970 prior to requesting a discharge
    Purple Heart Awards (3) (PDF) For wounds received in action on Dec. 2, 1968, Feb. 20, 1969, and Mar. 17, 1969
    Silver Star (PDF) For displaying "courage under fire, outstanding leadership, and exemplary professionalism" while acting as the Officer in Charge of a Tactical Command on Feb. 28, 1969.
    Bronze Star (PDF) For "professionalism, great personal courage under fire, and complete dedication to duty" in rescuing, while wounded, a man overboard following a mine explosion, directing his gunners to provide supporting fire for the rescue, and towing a damaged boat to safety under enemy fire on March 13, 1969
    Acceptance of Discharge Naval Reserve (PDF) July 13, 1978
    Background Information (PDF) Feb. 1, 1966
    Bupers Orders to Gridley (PDF) Nov. 17, 1966
    Change of Duty (PDF) July 8, 1968
    DD214 (PDF)
    Duty Recommendations (PDF)
    Emergency Data (PDF) Sept. 12, 1967
    Enlistment Contract (PDF) Feb. 18, 1966
    Enlistment Photo (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
    Fitness Reports (PDF) Apr. 12, 1967
    Honorable Discharge from Reserve (PDF) Feb. 16, 1978
    Leave Record (PDF)
    National Defense Service Medal (PDF)
    Naval Messages (PDF) Dec. 8, 1969
    Naval OCS Report (PDF)
    Nuclear Weapons Training Certificate (PDF) For training from May 8 - 11, 1967
    Office Order Memos (PDF) Dec. 5, 1969
    Officer Candidate Agreement (PDF) Feb. 18, 1966
    Order to Officer Candidate (PDF) July 14, 1966
    Pay Entry Base Date (PDF) Listed as Feb. 18, 1966
    Personnel Casualty Report (PDF)
    Presidential Unit Citation (PDF) "For Extraordinary Herosim" from Dec. 6, 1968 to Mar. 31, 1969
    Qualifying Questionnaire (PDF) Oct. 16, 1970
    Recommendations for Next (PDF) Nov. 24, 1969
    Record of Discharge (PDF)
    Release From Active Duty (PDF) Jan. 2, 1970
    Report of Home of Record (PDF) Dec. 1966
    Request for History of Service (PDF) May 24, 1986
    Request for Swiftboat Duty (PDF) Feb. 10, 1968
    Research Sheet F4-15 (PDF) June 21, 1967
    Reserve Office Appointment (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
    Security Clearances (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
    Service Record (PDF) Prepared Jan. 25, 1985
    Serviceman's Life Insurance (PDF) Dec. 8-9, 1968
    Statement of Service (PDF) June 21, 1967
    Thrice Wounded Reassignment (PDF) March 17, 1969
    Top Secret Clearance (PDF) April 28, 1969
    Training School Record (PDF) Feb. 18, 1968
    Transfer to Standby Reserve (PDF) March 1, 1972
    Travel Payment Order (PDF) Undated
    Vietnam Service Medal (PDF) April 8, 1968

    Military Records of First Lieutenant George W. Bush for National Guard Service Between 1972 and 1973:
    Jan. 6, 1973 USAF Dental Exam Record for 1st Lt. George W. Bush (HTML) [PDF version] Released by White House on Feb. 11, 2004
    Memorandum of Lt. Col. Albert C. Lloyd, Jr. (Ret.) (HTML) [PDF version] (Analysis of Military Payroll Records for George W. Bush for service from 1972 to 1973) Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
    USAF Reserve Personnel Record Card for 1st Lt. George W. Bush (HTML) [PDF version] (Covers period from 27 May 1972 to 26 May 1973) Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
    ARF 1st Statement of Points Earned by 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1972-1973) (HTML) [PDF version] Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
    ARF 2nd Statement of Points Earned by 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1973) (HTML) [PDF version] Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
    Military Payroll Records of 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1972-1973) (HTML) [PDF version] Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
  13. by   mscsrjhm
    Here is what I have found: one wound, minor, off duty for 2 days.

    two minimal wounds, no time off. Scratches.

    Is that what others are seeing?
  14. by   pickledpepperRN
    Quote from Mschrisco
    Here is what I have found: one wound, minor, off duty for 2 days.

    two minimal wounds, no time off. Scratches.

    Is that what others are seeing?
    I'm going to try it another way.

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