Go Ahead, You Cowards, Shoot Me!

  1. Reporters know that if they don't use the right style in US propaganda, that their copy will not be used. So it's imperative to call foreign troops used to stage a coup "peacekeepers". That way, one keeps one's job.

    Notice the sneaky way reporter Mark Stevenson sneaks his real opinion of this nefarious US invasion of Haiti in at the end of his reporting. Cute. Good going, Mark, for telling us the truth at great risk to being able to keep your job. Othewise the AP would fire you.

    Now, question is, is this Haitian patriot calling US troops cowards, because they have been shooting at unarmed Haitian demonstrators protesting their presence in his country? This report mentions that US marines killed one demonstrator. But bet is, that they have killed more already, or have been looking on as US backed thugs did the shootings for them. Hence, the use of the word COWARDS to describe the actions of US troops there.

    Nurse Hardee
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Peacekeepers Face Challenge in Haiti
    By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer

    PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - For U.S. Marines now making the third attempt in a century to bring order to Haiti, challenges abound, ranging from whether to disarm the general population and how to help build a new government without offending local leaders.

    The larger policy hopes-that this time around, interventions like those carried out in 1915 and 1994 will bring stable institutions and ease poverty-take a back seat to the more immediate business of establishing law and order in a country that has not known it for years.

    On Sunday, peacekeepers got a taste of how difficult this mission could be when unidentified gunmen opened fire on a peaceful demonstration, leaving seven dead in an attack that prompted the first armed action by Marines who arrived a week ago.

    Immediately, both opponents and supporters of ousted President Jean Bertrand Aristide began calling on peacekeepers to disarm their enemies, while others criticized the Marines for not doing enough to prevent violence. Defense officials say there are more than 1,600 U.S. troops in Haiti, among them about 1,500 Marines.

    Col. Charles Gurganus said Marines were able to shoot and kill one gunman, but he said the peacekeepers' mission did not include disarmament. That was up to police, he said, although he indicated peacekeepers would lend a hand if asked.

    Disarmament is an age-old debate in Haiti, where everchanging rebel and opposition forces stash weapons for the next uprising.

    International forces helped reinstate Aristide in 1994 after a 1991 military coup, and many have criticized peacekeepers and even Aristide himself for failing to disarm the soldiers. Later, he was accused of arming street gangs that terrorized his political opponents.

    Some say that helped lead to his downfall. Aristide fled Feb. 29 amid growing anger over corruption and human rights abuses.

    Aristide "made a big mistake sending us home with our guns" said rebel Remissainthe Ravix. "There's no such thing as the former Haitian army now. We have the weapons and the expertise to take the country."

    Chief rebel leader Guy Philippe said Sunday's attack never would have happened if his men had not been asked to lay down their arms, and he warned that his followers would return to battle if the peacekeepers did not disarm Aristide loyalists blamed for Sunday's attack.

    Monday afternoon, Philippe met with opposition leaders to discuss bringing back Haiti's once-murderous army.

    Facing a growing threat of violence, interim President Boniface Alexandre urged Haitians "to keep calm," adding: "No one has the right to carry out justice by themselves." Prime Minister Yvon Neptune called on police to collect weapons.

    Opposition leader Charles Henry Baker, who generally supports the multinational force, predicted that the crisis would claim both Haitian and peacekeeper lives.

    "The U.S. forces will have to be very careful to avoid losing any men," he said.

    Aristide fled a week ago amid a bloody rebellion and international pressure to step down. Now peacekeepers are hoping to assist the desertion-plagued Haitian police so that officers can pick up their share of foot patrols and the foreign forces "can stay inside their tanks," Baker said.

    But U.S. officials say police here are devastated and demoralized, facing the corruption and thuggery that long ago entwined itself with politics.

    There is also resentment at yet another intervention.

    "I'm happy to be back in Haiti," said Gen. James T. Hill, commander of the U.S. Southern Command, "but also sad to be back in Haiti under these circumstances."

    Hill was in Haiti in 1994 to help to restore Aristide to power after a 1991 military coup.

    This time around, U.S. officials say, they are not backing any leader, leaving the question of who will guide Haiti out of its chaos.

    U.S. Ambassador James Foley called Friday for "the formation of an independent, neutral government that will deal with the business of governance in this country, a government of national unity."

    "This is a critical opportunity," Foley said, "to turn the corner on the violence and all the problems that have afflicted the country."

    Most Port-au-Prince residents greet Marine patrols with mild curiosity, but there is little obedience to the Marines' hand signals and shouted commands in English. Traffic rules have long been ignored here, and Marine convoys, however heavily armed, aren't going to change that.

    At the Port au Prince airport, the Marines' base, dozens of Haitians, mainly young men, crowded around a gate guarded by Marines, in the hope of getting jobs.

    "All these people want jobs. We can't give them jobs," said Marine Cpl. Ken Jones, 21, of Evansville, Ind.

    The very weight of the Marine presence, intended to discourage resistance, at times breeds anger. During a protest Friday, one Aristide supporter bared his chest to the Marines guarding the palace and screamed "Shoot me! Go ahead, you cowards, shoot me!"
    •  
  2. 85 Comments

  3. by   nekhismom
    I think we need to support our troops no matter what. They are just following orders. I support 'em, even if I don't agree with their mission. I refuse to bash the troops.
  4. by   NurseHardee
    I am not "bashing the troops". But Americans need to clearly know what the US troops are doing, why they are doing these invasions of foreign countries, and how people feel when their countries are invaded by US troops.

    Nurse Hardee
  5. by   WyomingRN
    Quote from nekhismom
    I think we need to support our troops no matter what. They are just following orders. I support 'em, even if I don't agree with their mission. I refuse to bash the troops.
    If this we so true, why were German and Japanese punished for what they did "in the name of war" and for "just following orders"?

    American troops to an oath to "uphold the Constitution" and defend America "from all enemies, bith foreign and domestic."

    They did not take any oath to act as guardians of the world or as guardians of big business or as the private army for politicians or big business.

    Their duty is to only follow orders that are truly in defenses of America in time of war. Their duty is to refuse to follow any orders that would allow/support any American government un-Constitutional action.
  6. by   teeituptom
    I think we need to support our troops

    I think we need to impeach Bushie and Cheney

    I think we should support our troops by bringing them home now.
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    i agree w/Tom!

    except I want Bushie and Cheney voted out...impeachment is expensive and long process. Voting them out will be quicker.
  8. by   nurseygrrl
    Quote from WyomingRN
    They did not take any oath to act as guardians of the world or as guardians of big business or as the private army for politicians or big business.

    Their duty is to only follow orders that are truly in defenses of America in time of war. Their duty is to refuse to follow any orders that would allow/support any American government un-Constitutional action.
    Do you realize that you're talking about 18 and 19 year old BOYS here? 18 and 19 year old boys that were conditioned in basic training to do what they are told, no questions asked. These boys are going to do what they're told by their superiors. They are away from home on foreign soil, they're scared witless for the most part. They deserve our support.
  9. by   NurseHardee
    True what you say here, HerEyes. But the way to support young Americans caught up in the military is not to proclaim them heroes, when in fact they are not. Everyday, one can see signs and banners that falsely portray their job as some sort of super patrotism.

    American history is replete with incidences where those that say they 'support the troops' have viciously turned on them when they came home and spoke out against their previous misuse by our government. All one has to do is look at the recent case of how Scott Ritter got vilified when he told the truth about Iraq. Certainly he was one troop not supported by those who call out for supporting the troops.

    Nurse Hardee
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Quote from HerEyes73
    Do you realize that you're talking about 18 and 19 year old BOYS here? 18 and 19 year old boys that were conditioned in basic training to do what they are told, no questions asked. These boys are going to do what they're told by their superiors. They are away from home on foreign soil, they're scared witless for the most part. They deserve our support.
  10. by   teeituptom
    As you put it they are poor dumb scared kids, I agree with you, As I was over 30 yrs ago.

    I still say bring our kids home where they belong
  11. by   kmchugh
    First, to HerEyes: Those boys are not "conditioned in basic training to do what they are told, no questions asked." Yes, following orders is important, but so is independent thought. Initiative is encouraged, and the laws of warfare are taught. Troops are told they have the duty not to follow orders that are not lawful. In other words, we all knew that shooting prisoners was wrong, and to say we were following orders was no defense. American troops are not the blind, unthinking automatons some people want to believe they are.

    Next to NurseHardee: I too do not want our troops painted as some kind of uber patriotic supermen. They are human. They are liable to mistakes, and to succumb to emotion. That said, my issue is that you seem ready to believe and post every report that comes down the pike accusing US forces of every imaginable kind of atrocity. I've lost count, but I think you have started four or five such threads. In every case, I've read your report, and found them to be implausible. In most cases, there was enough information in the report itself to show that it could not possibly be true. (Think back, Iraqi prisoners going seven days without being given any food or water? In a desert environment? After about three days, those prisoners would not have been around to make the accusations. Just one example that comes immediately to mind.)

    What I don't understand is your willingness to suspend all critical thinking where these reports are concerned. You want us to believe that some of our troops are monsters, and the rest are willing to let these guys express their "monsterism." Except I know a goodly number of these folks. They ain't like that.

    Kevin McHugh
    Last edit by kmchugh on Mar 10, '04 : Reason: spelling
  12. by   athomas91
    NurseHardee...you are so concerned about us "invading other countries" -
    do you remember when WE were invaded.......?????? how soon we forget.
    i know MANY, MANY, MANY soldiers....and ALL of them completely support Bush's decisions and actions - and none of them would ever condone any type of "war crime" actions.
    However, we could fix all of this...by following Robin Williams' ideas on how to "find peace"

    1. apologize to all other countries for "invading them" and taking their leaders out of power ie: Mussolini, Hitler, Hussein.....

    2. pull all of our troops out of all other countries...post them on our borders...no one sneaking in here!

    3. all illegal aliens have 30 days to get things in order and leave...free trip home paid by US.

    4. all visitors are prohibited to stay longer than 90 days..unless a special permit is issued

    5. NO students from other countries over the age of 21 (highest poss for terrorist involvement)

    6. no terrorist associated individuals allowed...if they don't like it...change their ways....

    7. use OUR OWN oil from Alaska...the animals will just have to put up w/ it for a while

    8. offer foreign countries 10$/barrel for their oil...if they don't like it...let other countries buy it...their stock piles will be overunning and their pockets empty before long....

    9. withdraw all our "financial aid" of all other countries...

    10. Let the Statue of Liberty now hold a baseball bat and read "you want a piece of me?"

    ....so for all of you who "don't want war", who are "upset" that we "invade" other countries, who think that our troops are "murderers".....these few things WOULD solve all those problems...now wouldn't they....
    you want peace...find a plan...and quit complaining.
  13. by   WyomingRN
    Quote from HerEyes73
    Do you realize that you're talking about 18 and 19 year old BOYS here? 18 and 19 year old boys that were conditioned in basic training to do what they are told, no questions asked. These boys are going to do what they're told by their superiors. They are away from home on foreign soil, they're scared witless for the most part. They deserve our support.
    First, AMEN athomas91.

    Next, while acknowledging the truth in Kevin's post (#10), yes Hereyes I do. It is very difficult for such a young person to take a stand against such mighty authority. I blame this on the parents of the last three generations. The real meaning of American - real American history, the real purpose of the Constitution and the actual limits of the federal government have simply not been taught. In short, the original vision of America is completely lost and those now running the government see nothing less that a one world government - a world-wide American empire.

    Unless and until the American people educate themselves and demand a return to the original intent of the US Constitution - a VERY LIMITED CENTRAL GOVERNMENT, the problem is only going to get worse as young American boys and girls and decieved into believing that the US can do anything it wants, anytime it wants, anywhere it wants, with complete impunity.

    Shoot - only a very small percentage of those over 30 even stand up to the political thugs - and even fewer stand up and support the Constitution ("LIMITED GOVERNMENT"). In fact, those who take such a stand are generally referred to in a derogatory manner. Being a "Constitutionalist" is a bad thing in America. For all the talk of being proud Americans, they have set a real good example for these young kids - Just do what you are told - no matter whether it is right or wrong.

    If Washington, Jefferson, Paine, Madison, Franklin or Patrick Henry were alive today, they would all be condemned by both the government and the public; and not one of them could get elected to any office. Sheesh - for that matter, nor could Christ.

    From my observations, Americans just don't seems to have very high standards anymore; shoot - nor do they have much in the way of principle.

    It seems that the two qualifications for being president anymore is that one has to be rich and be willing too lie a lot. To heck with the Constitution and any oath of office.
  14. by   nurseygrrl
    Quote from kmchugh
    First, to HerEyes: Those boys are not "conditioned in basic training to do what they are told, no questions asked." Yes, following orders is important, but so is independent thought. Initiative is encouraged, and the laws of warfare are taught. Troops are told they have the duty not to follow orders that are not lawful. In other words, we all knew that shooting prisoners was wrong, and to say we were following orders was no defense. American troops are not the blind, unthinking automatons some people want to believe they are.
    I don't think our troops are blind, unthinking automatons. I think they are scared, young, people who are taught to follow orders and did not yet attain the maturity level do do otherwise in the situations they are put in. My husband served in the USAF for 10 years and I have heard plenty of stories from he and his friends. In my opinion, that includes being "conditioned in basic training to do what they are told, no questions asked." I mean no disrespect to you, Kevin, as maybe you've had different experiences, just stating my opinion.

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