Dog$ of War....can this be true?

  1. i was reading the 8/11/03 issue of business week
    in the second quarter corporate scoreboard
    united defense industries
    has a 12 month return on common equity
    listed as 1448.1 !
    [the industry composite is 9.6]

    you may remember united defense industries
    a leading prime contractor for a number of combat vehicles, artillery and weapons delivery systems, and other defense systems
    it was formed in 1997 by the carlyle group

    you may remember the private investment company, the carlyle group
    and its celebrities
    former world leaders and washington insiders
    rich and powerful
    looking ever more like
    dogs of war



    endless money forms the sinews of war.
    (cicero, philippics)


    do you want to know the cause of war?
    it is capitalism, greed, the dirty hunger for dollars.
    take away the capitalist and you will sweep war from the earth.
    ____________ -- henry ford



    america
    where too much is never enough
    if you are rich
    and
    where my cousin [61 and severely disabled with mental illness since age 17]
    must beg family members to see a dentist
    [in washington state, medicaid no longer covers dental]

    america
    where the cost of bushii's tax cuts
    is nearly triple the cost of
    afghanistan, iraq and homeland security...
    and a nation $43 trillion in the hole

    america
    lost democracy
    new oligarchy
    a military/industrial/financial complex
    ruled by the few, for the few






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  2. 9 Comments

  3. by   Ted
    Powerful post.

    America
    lost democracy
    new oligarchy
    a military/industrial/financial complex
    ruled by the few, for the few
    I've believed this for sometime with the exception of one point. The oligarchy has been here for a longer time to be called "new".

  4. by   VivaLasViejas
    I agree with you there, Ted......the military/industrial/financial complex has been the driving force in this country for a long time, certainly for most of my lifetime (I was not quite 5 when JFK was assassinated, which is when everything pretty much went to hell). I don't see it changing anytime soon, either; the corporations and the military (and their acolytes in the halls of government) have got an iron grip on America, and very few voters seem to see anything wrong with this. Witness Bush's approval ratings, which remain relatively high despite growing concerns about Iraq, the lousy economy, and his attempts to push ahead with some very unpopular ideas (the overtime issue, the "futures" debacle and so on). What don't people get about this guy??! He's gonna do what he wants to do, when and to whom he wants to do it, and hang the cost; what frightens me is that America either doesn't see it, or worse, doesn't care.
  5. by   OC_An Khe
    When I was younger President Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex. In fact he coined the term. It is nothing new even then. There's money to be made during war and sometimes even more in the peace that follows. In fact our economic dominance has its roots in the fact that we were the victors in the Second World War with the only intact economic structure.
    This has been true historically ever since humanity recognized that civilization offered a better standard of living then being hunter gatherers.
    And since we have numerous"types of civilizations" in competition with each other violent conflict becomes inevitable.
  6. by   PennyLane
    Originally posted by mjlrn97
    I don't see it changing anytime soon, either; the corporations and the military (and their acolytes in the halls of government) have got an iron grip on America, and very few voters seem to see anything wrong with this. Witness Bush's approval ratings, which remain relatively high despite growing concerns about Iraq, the lousy economy, and his attempts to push ahead with some very unpopular ideas (the overtime issue, the "futures" debacle and so on). What don't people get about this guy??! He's gonna do what he wants to do, when and to whom he wants to do it, and hang the cost; what frightens me is that America either doesn't see it, or worse, doesn't care.
    I don't know ANYONE who likes Bush. So we are here, just gotta find us!! I don't get how his approval ratings are so high, either. But with the number of soldiers still stuck in Iraq, and the high cost of the war and our economic problems at home, I think those numbers will slide.
  7. by   VivaLasViejas
    You may be right, Mel, at least I hope so. I was reading the letters to the editor in the newspaper this morning, and it occurred to me that the nasty responses to anyone who doesn't agree with Bush and the Republican party line may be the reason more people don't speak out against them. I've seen this happen over and over again, in national magazines and on TV as well as in the newspapers---we're called "America-haters" and "traitors", and the word "liberal" is used as a pejorative against anyone who dares to question Bush or his policies. And these are just the terms that are fit for publication!

    Since when does disagreeing with a government official or a policy constitute treason in this country? And since when has it become equal with hating the USA? Nobody called the Clinton-bashers anti-American, and they were absolutely vicious in their criticism of him and his leadership (not to mention his wife). Nobody called them traitors when they impeached him for what were, essentially, lies about a marital indiscretion---a sin to which men throughout history, both the great and the lowly, have succumbed. (And what made that any business of Ken Starr's, or Congress, I will NEVER understand.)

    I guess all we can hope for is that as Bush's war (that "ended" months ago) drags on and the economy sinks deeper into the sewer, more people will speak up....even at the risk of being demonized by the right-wingers. Despite their best efforts, it's *still* a free country, and we "liberal Democrat America-hating traitors" have as much right to be heard as they do!
  8. by   teeituptom
    Impeach all Bushies
  9. by   Mkue
    Democrats have a right to be heard. Being anti-Bush or anti-War does not make a good President alone. Be careful what you wish for, candidates look and sound appealing while they are running for office, it's easy to criticise a current administration but the candidate must have more to offer than just criticism of a current administration.

    Will your candidate be able to do all things right?

    How would your candidate react to an attack such as 9/11?

    Will your candidate protect our Airlines?

    Where does your candidate stand on immigration?

    Does your candidate care about Palestine and Isreal? Liberia?

    Will your candidate find Bin Ladin and Saddam Hussain? if so, should we set a time line as to when they should be found?

    How does your candidate feel about giving Humanitarian aid ?

    Will your candidate have the guts and courage to make a decision to protect his country even if not all the people agree?

    Will your candidate do more for the environment and cut military spending?

    What are your candidates plans for the economy and creating jobs? and has he set goals for doing this?

    Will your candidate invade a country then withdraw too soon?

    Will your candidate be criticised for every military life that is lost?

    Will your candidate be allowed to take Vacations?

    Will your candidate be allowed to have a close relationship with another leader such as Tony Blair?

    Is your candidate concerned about WMD?

    Democrats say the post war plan in Iraq is not working, how would your candidate operate this plan?

    Would your candidate remain "tough" while the other party is criticising him?
  10. by   PennyLane
    Originally posted by mkue
    Will your candidate do more for the environment and cut military spending?

    I certainly hope so. Bush has been the worst president for the environment since Reagan, IMO. He has weakened environmental protections that Clinton instituted, and has made it abundantly clear that he is friends with the logging and oil industries. The environment is one of my biggest issues and I vote accordingly. Unfortunately the governor of my state and the president of my country (neither of whom I voted for) have been absolutely horrible in regards to the environment.

    If we don't have a healthy planet, we don't have anything.
  11. by   maureeno
    this is not a partisan issue



    indeed
    every American taxpayer is implicated
    we are all war dogs
    not to the degree or extent of equity holders in Carlyle or Haliburton
    but through the actions of our government

    one quarter of our gross domestic product is military related
    our taxes fund weapons development and manufacture

    through the departments of Defense, State and Commerce
    we promote and SUBSIDIZE arms sales.
    in 1999 the US gave at least $7.6 billion in
    grants,subsidizes and tax breaks to CORPORATIONS
    that exported weapons.

    Well I am aware the US is not the only dominant nation exporting arms
    but my tax money subsidizes coporations who profit by death/destruction
    my tax money is going into the pockets of rich,powerful people
    who set policy and then profit from conflict

    check this map to see weapons produced for export form your state
    http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/Industry/us.htm

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