Does France really OWE us for debts of 50 years ago?? If so,

  1. I have been thinking about this and haven't formed an opinion. But, I have asked myself if we are morally-economically -ethically correct to demand France 'Repay a 50 year old debt?'
    It reminds me of those Mafia thugs and bullies in the Godfather movies. The thugs were always asking , "who owes a favor, who owes us a debt?", when they wanted something done in another dons' territory.
    I mean.......... Is France indebted to us FOREVER?

    And if the answer is yes, shouldn't we still be mad at the Japanese and Koreans? Why are we buying all their cars and technology?

    Why don't we demand that the South Korean president get his arse up to North Korea and "do his duty?"

    Ditto for the Japanese premier.
    Any insights to assist me in figuring this out will be appreciated.

    Our pastor used to say: "Gratitude is an odious burden to bear."
    50+ years of gratitude....? Well, please....let's move on.
    Don't you think?
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  2. 36 Comments

  3. by   jnette
    Agree with you there, Passing Thru.

    Times and Seasons change. I'm sure they ARE indeed still grateful for liberation back then... however, because I do somebody a kindness once does not entitle me to converting someone to my belief system or expect them to agree with me on all things all of the time.

    Many years have passed, and a new generation has evolved. These do not recall or have not experienced that which they "should" be grateful for, just as our own new generations have views differing from our own at times.

    We must be wary of generalizing, also. The French are, for the most part, good, fun-loving, easy going people... who do not stress nearly as much as we, or take life quite so seriously. And, like here, just because their leader voices his opinion, I'm sure he does not speak for all French, either.

    We all need to learn not to hate those who have differing views than our own... live and let live. We can't ALL be right ALL of the time.
  4. by   adrienurse
    No they don't.
  5. by   Glad2behere
    Uh, the Berlin wall came down in 89? Where do you get a 50 year debt? Would not France had possibly succumbed to powers stronger than she if it not for the USA? Czechoslovakia did, Poland did, and so did Yugoslavia. Ever hear of NATO? Had very beneficial effects for the French. Didn't the French have something to do with Vietnam?

    The US has consistently been a big paticipant in France's well being and an indisputably loyal ally...more for their sake than ours. They are not being asked to do any heavy-lifting in this situation. The idealism they possess is admirable, but please remember these are the same dreamers that declined help when offered and preferred the safety of the Maginot Line.

    The French can AFFORD to be fun loving, easy going people! They have had 50 years of no-war because of the good-ole-USA.

    And praise to all the transports flying over France now, as they open the doors and crews relieve their bladders. The French have a new term for acid-rain.
  6. by   epg_pei
    What do you figure you owe the French?

    "Though facing insurmountable odds, the underdog naval forces of the young United States proved their savvy by helping to defeat Great Britain in the War for Independence. The exhibit traces the American naval effort in its three components: the Continental Navy, state navies, and privateers. Victory was gained for America through a combination of American determination, French assistance, and British military blunders. "

    The American Revolution and the French Alliance at
    http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/exhibits/revo.htm


    "Aware that the new Continental Army needed engineers and experienced artillerymen, as well as staff officers, the US Congress requested that Silas Deane and Benjamin Franklin secure some professional French officers with such skills. Even before this recruiting, a number of French and other European military officers sought to join the American Army as they learned of the thirteen colonies revolt against England. Many joined even before the Battle of Bunker Hill."

    FRENCH VOLUNTEERS AND SUPPORTERS OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION at http://xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/volunt.htm (nice page)
  7. by   passing thru
    Glad2 be: I don't understand what the Berlin Wall has to do with the preceding posts/or France.
    It was my understanding the French walked out of French-Indo China (vietnam), and did not ask for our permission or assistance. They said, "we're leaving." We jumped on it.
    Our history books are SO slanted. I read some European history books(translations) and was totally shocked to read their versions of history. Russian history books, the one I read seemed factual, included tons of stuff we american citizens never were privy to.
    So, who owes whom what? It would, IMHO, take the wisdom of ten Solomons to figure that one out.

    Personally, if someones beats me in a fight, I'd rather spend the next fifty years kicking their butt back to their place......than have to sacrifice my independence, my sovreignity, my very soul, to ""the rescuer"". The ""rescuer"" delivers a tough fee...... ""You owe me your loyalty, independent thought, your children, your money, your very right to exist as an independent sovereign nation until the end of time.""

    Was that in the contract??
  8. by   passing thru
    A very good point, Pei. I'm afraid we Americans aren't very good sports. We only look for facts to justify the means...to justify our actions. We do not look for truth or honest facts.
  9. by   passing thru
    AND, I've been praising the saints for two weeks ! I hope EVERY American stays out of France this summer! Hallelujah Jesus ! Paris to myself in July ! I will have died and gone to heaven!
  10. by   Glad2behere
    The Berlin Wall was the obstacle and symbol that represented the boundary between the US and Russia. Our presence maintained that boundary for all those years, and thereby insured the safety of nations such as ....France.

    If someone beat you in a fight, sure you could spend the next 50 years kicking their butt....if you got the chance...or you count on your best ally...knowing no matter what, if your country gets invaded again, call for help...from you know who. But wait, the actual probability that you will be invaded is nil to none because why? Because your best ally has made it so.
  11. by   jnette
    Originally posted by passing thru
    A very good point, Pei. I'm afraid we Americans aren't very good sports. We only look for facts to justify the means...to justify our actions. We do not look for truth or honest facts.
    Ditto. Thank you. And we have amazing ways of sweeping things under the rug while looking down our noses at other nations.
    Last edit by jnette on Mar 15, '03
  12. by   passing thru
    Glad to be here: Wasn't there a French Sector in Berlin? All those years??

    And in the fight, if I knew the rescuer was going to hold me in debt to him for the next 1000 years, I would keep fighting, (remember the underground), until my other buddy came to help...knowing he too was on his way.... and my other buddy did not hold a single debt for his assistance....never once - in the last 50 years -reminded me of the cost to him for saving my butt.
    Even though the cost was thousands of times greater than the cost of my original bud.
  13. by   Mkue
    Originally posted by Glad2behere
    But wait, the actual probability that you will be invaded is nil to none because why? Because your best ally has made it so.
    ^5
  14. by   Glad2behere
    Passing thru,

    So you you are concluding that in WWII the French resistance would have eventually defeated the Nazis if the Allies had not landed at Dunkirk? I say wrong. The Russians would have. Did Stalin return any countries he overran to self rule after WWII? Answer, no. Did we? Answer, yes, and one of them was France.
    What if the US had returned to a policy of isolationism immediately post WWII, and NATO had not been created? One of the reasons NATO was created was because Stalin made no secret about ruling everything Hitler had previously. Finally a deal was struck with Poland. Think about it. France would not be here today as a sovereign nation if it wasn't for the US interceding in so many ways. Asking them to go along with us for a change is not at all a payment of any debt owed by them to us, it is merely a respect one ally is obligated to show as an ally. If the WTC had been the Eiffel tower instead, who do you think they would look to to solve it? What if it was and we meekly sat on our hands and said for once, "Hey Frenchies, fight your own damn war for once? Who needs ya?"

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